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Thread: Boards on the Hoof: Lumber question and tree gloat.... BIG TREE.

  1. #1
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    Boards on the Hoof: Lumber question and tree gloat.... BIG TREE.

    Today was a day to tax the muscles. I cut down the following snag ponderosa. Boy is this a big tree. The old gal stood about 100 feet and had a trunk diameter of about 4 feet. Yes, trees make lots of noise when they drop in the forrest. So far, I have been limbing out this tree and checking out the lumber possibility. The tree is heavyily blue stained but not so much as to produce blue wood. This should look very good.

    Here is the lumber question. This tree has been dead for about 3 or 4 years give or take. The aging process has drawn plenty of blue stain into the wood. So far, the wood looks useable but I have never cut a dead tree for lumber. Do you lumber guys think this will be worth while to board out? I am interested in obtaining blue stain tonque and groove lumber to complete the interior of my wood shop. What do you guys think? Do we have a goer here?
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    Last edited by Dev Emch; 12-10-2005 at 4:09 AM.
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    Sample Cut of Blue Stain

    My camera does not do justice to the color. The camera has muddied out the colors do to the lighting and flash. At any rate, I did a small sample cut of a log cut from the top of this tree to see what the wood looks like. So far, it looks pretty darn nice. I do like how the interior knot was cut on this sample. To bad my junky camera did not reproduce the blue stain as it appears in person. The ripple patterns are saw marks left over from the bandsaw.
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  3. #3
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    I think it's a personal decision Dev. If to color gradients throughout the lumber are pleasing to you. I'd say go for it, unless you can find the exact same material in a lumber yard for cheaper than what you consider your time to mill this tree to lumber would be.
    If it is nothing else, it will be a learning experience.
    Personally, I think I would give it a go.

  4. #4
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    Dev, from the picture I'd say go for it. That looks like some nice wood. At the size of the tree you should get quite a few hundred board feet of lumber.

    I wonder if the color will lessen as the wood is dried. I would think air drying would preserve the colors more than KD, but there may be a significant loss of color during the drying process whatever method is chosen. I'm sure some of the others here can tell you more.

    Karl
    Last edited by Karl Laustrup; 12-10-2005 at 6:11 PM.
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  5. #5
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    I'd slab it out and see what you get. Leave it plenty thick in case it decides to take off for parts unkown whe you start machining it.

    Brian
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    Dev, where does the blue come from? Is is minerals in the cellulose?

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    Not having seen the original, I don't know if this is closer to "reality" color-wise, but at least a large amount of the yellow-brown cast is removed.
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  8. Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dunn
    Dev, where does the blue come from? Is is minerals in the cellulose?
    The bark beetles that killed the tree they are a mess out here
    walt

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Dev Emch
    Do you lumber guys think this will be worth while to board out? I am interested in obtaining blue stain tonque and groove lumber to complete the interior of my wood shop. What do you guys think? Do we have a goer here?
    Nice catch Dev!

    Find a guy with a swingmill to come right to the tree or a Woodmizer if he can get it in there.

    Either one will be able to QS random widths for vertical grain--preferable for flooring, countertops, etc.

    The Woodmizer would be able to produce wider widths of VG--up to 28" wide by quartering the logs first (see my page on this at http://www.scottbanbury.com/quartersawing.html).

    Quartering a 4' diameter log, a Woodmizer will be able to achieve 15" wide QS planks. A swing mill won't be able to do this.

    A swingmill, however, may also be set up to work with a chain slabbing bar to cut full width boules.

    Maybe you need to find a sawyer with both types.

    Good luck!

  10. #10
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    Blue Stain Pine or Beetle Kill Pine

    Right now, the market rate for blue stain tonque and groove is anywhere from 1/3 to twice the price of normal T&G pine. It is used heavily for rustic ski condos and what some folks call log cabins. To me a log cabin is a one room house with a wood stove. These neo log cabins are pushing ONE MILLION in price and have about 3500 to 5500 square feet.

    The forrest service has been hard pressed budget wise lately and have not allowed commercial loggers to remove beetle kill as much as before. So market pressure on blue stain has pushed the price up. Believe it or not, the blue stain is often the more desireable lumber when building timber frames and log cabins. Its used for wall paneling and ceilings.

    Where does the blue stain come from? That is a good question. First of all, its a fungus and that makes blue stain lumber a type of spalted lumber similar to wormy maple. The fungus is carried into the wood by the pine beetle that killed the tree in the first place. But the amount of blue stain varies signifcantly. I have cut many beetle trees while they still had some life in them to contain the beetles. You dont want them to fly or they can kill even more trees.

    But the blue stain was minimal. This tree has been dead for several years and it appears that the best blue stain comes from letting the tree age like a hunk of cheese or a bottle of wine. But you take a risk that the wood becomes a bit punky and that is what I am worried about. So far, it looks like I may be O.K. here. I have some light checking on one side of the trunk and I may need to cut off about 1 foot from the bottom of the trunk to eliminate any light punky-ness. Other than that, the tree looks good.

    The idea is to cut this tree into 4/4 lumber and mill it into 6 or 8 inch wide tonque and groove wall paneling which will wind up in my shop on the walls. I am sick and tired of looking at the open frame walls. A tad of insultion and these walls will make a much cozy-ier place to work.

    The blue stain is a light blue hue that remains with the wood. Once sealed with a good poly, it relatively color fast. I guess if you expose it to heavy southern exposure sunlight, it may bleach out over time. But I have seen blue stain that was installed 30 years ago and it still looks good today.
    Last edited by Dev Emch; 12-10-2005 at 4:39 PM.
    Had the dog not stopped to go to the bathroom, he would have caught the rabbit.

  11. #11
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    I agree with Scott, see if you can find someone local with a swingblade mill.
    They are designed to handle logs like that and will spit out 6x1s as fast as you can offload them
    The bluestain is the first stage of decay the wood goes through but if it's still solid you will be able to use it. It may have lost some of it's original strength, but for wall panelling thats not important.
    It will also be fairly dry already, that will change the way it saws. Not a big problem with the swingblade, they just chew thru most woods, but it can give a band mill problems as it hits the hard dry knots.

    Cheers

    Ian

  12. #12
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    Here are some more pics of blued pine that give a better idea of the character of the wood. For some reason, it is not easy to photograph (at least in a basement). It is considered somewhat of a scourge in this area. My neighbor used to do some logging, he said the mills would refuse to saw anybecause they claimed the fungus would contaminate any other lumber that went through the mill. Don't know if that's true or not. I have only found it at one yard around here, goes for 0.99 a bd. ft. It is used for paneling and rustic bookcases and such.
    Here is a board, and a rack I made for my japanese saws.
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    Last edited by Dan Forman; 12-11-2005 at 4:58 AM.
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  13. #13
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    I've used wood like this to make raised panel doors for my garage wall cabinets....

    The petina is awsome. I love how they've aged.

    Joe

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