Manufacturing Differences

[tod evans]

Shiraz, i raised this question in the router bit question earlier today and really would like your input: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27567
this same line different paint thing is a question i for one would like to have clarified. having never set foot in taiwan or china i would call on Shiraz to shed some light on this matter,not specifically router bits but equipment as well. my understanding is that griz has in the last decade implimented some of the most progressive machinery factories in the middle east? my curiosity lies as to which bits/machines run down the same lines only to get painted a different color? can/will you shed some light on this Shiraz? tod

[Shiraz Balolia]

Shiraz, my understanding is that griz has in the last decade implimented some of the most progressive machinery factories in the middle east? my curiosity lies as to which bits/machines run down the same lines only to get painted a different color? can/will you shed some light on this Shiraz? tod

Tod - you mean the Far East, correct? We do not source anything from the Middle East.

Please clarify your question about "different colors". Please be specific.

[Mark Singer]

I got some great router bits from Isreal....very nice on all kinds of wood kosher, or not....I couldn't use them on Saturdays though....they don't drive

[Bart Leetch]

Shiraz

Tod means as apposed to Grizzly Green coming off an exclusive assemble line where it is the only say G1023 Cabinet-saw coming off the line to say Jet, Delta, Bridgewood etc all coming off the same line. I believe he is including all manufactures of all tools Planers, Jointers, Drill press, router bits etc.

[Shiraz Balolia]

Bart - I like your hat, even though it is the old logo!
The G1023 is made in a factory that only supplies us.

[tod evans]

Shiraz, sorry about my eastern dyslexia i would hope that the taiwan-china mention would have made clear my question.....but i`ll rephrase; do you know which manufacturers use the same factories overseas to have their machinery built? same question regarding cutters, router/shaper and saw blades? if you do know would you share that information with the rest of us? you have posted in the past that your products are manufactured by the same firm that powermatic uses, and it is common knowlegde that co-matic manufactures the feeders that are painted so many different colors,(and priced accordingly) so please enlighten the masses here as to the true origin of their beloved colors, no matter the color. i honestly believe that more than a few eyes will be opened to the marketing genius of some of the most popular equipment purchased by american woodworkers. thanks, tod

[Corey Hallagan]

My recollection is that several of the factories that may make Grizzly products are also making other brand name equipment. I would think it would go much deeper than the paint color or the sheet metal. Each manufacturer's run would be specific to there component requests that make up each unit, such as the motor, handles, bearings etc. I would think you would be hard pressed to say that a Delta contractors saw that came off the line last week is the same saw that came off this week in Grizzly green or Powermatic Gold. Even the degree of quality control is at the direction of the company ordering the product.

Corey

[Matt Meiser]

I think maybe Shiraz was hinting that if you ask specifically if a certain Grizzly product was made in the same factory as product X, he would answer. I would guess that they source a lot of products from a lot of different suppliers and he couldn't make a blanket statement.

Also I agree with Corey. Just because three manufacturer's products come from the same factory, or perhaps even the same line doesn't mean they are identical. For example, it is pretty obvious that my Yorkcraft jointer is made from most of the same parts as a Delta. However the Delta ships with a better power switch, while mine incorporates a mobile base feature unavailable from Delta. Both rub @$#$%^&^ red paint from the guard onto the workpiece equally well!

Disclaimer: I don't own a Grizzly machine, but I would have purchased my jointer from them if I couldn't have gotten the G0586 in the time I wanted it and my planer if I hadn't found a great deal on a comparable Delta locally.

[tod evans]

cory, you are probably correct, but my question was multifacited, i not only asked about machinery but cutters, what started this thread was the fact that when i ordered some router bits from woodline a large percentage came with the cmt logo clearly stamped on their shank. hence my phrase different colors with corresponding prices. further if a fellow where to place say 15 inch planers side by side in different colors and do a real world analysis of each machine what would a person really be getting for their money other than a different color of paint? seeing as we are lucky enough to have Shiraz on this forum and seeing as he is well versed in the going-ons overseas i think it would be very educational for us all to see who is pulling the wool over our collective eyes with clever advertising and who is actually a straight shooter. obviously any other importer who would care to address this question is welcome to jump in but so far Shiraz seems to be the only one to step forward??? tod

[tod evans]

i would like to invite the spokesman for wmh tool group and also the spokesman for delta/dewalt/portercable to step up to the table and enter this discussion as Shiraz has. see ya`ll tomorrow, tod
oh-yeah and all of the collective bit and blade importers

[Richard Wolf]

Tod, It's my $.02, but I think you are crossing a line asking Shiraz about his business. Plus It is probibly a breech of confidence for him to disclose information that he may be privy to about other manufactures. I hope you are not making him uncomfortable.

Richard

[Corey Hallagan]

I think router bits tend to be a little bit different animal from what Pat Warner has said. Many of the catalog vendors such as CMT, MLCS, Eagle America etc. may manufacture their own yet some bits in there own catalog they have others produce for them. Not sure what that is but I expect it is the equipment required for certain items etc. All about the $$ I expect and cost effectiveness.

Corey

[Kevin Murdock]

seeing as we are lucky enough to have Shiraz on this forum and seeing as he is well versed in the going-ons overseas i think it would be very educational for us all to see who is pulling the wool over our collective eyes with clever advertising and who is actually a straight shooter.

Tod,

The following is said totally tounge in cheek.

If Colonel Sanders was a forum member, I don't think that he'd give out the secret blend of 11 herbs and spices.

I'm sure we're actually somewhere between the above and knowing that both GMC and Chevrolet trucks are virtually identical save some badging, but I think that Shiraz may be a bit elusive on giving out complete list of what's made where for a reason.

/Kevin

[Chris Barton]

Me thinks Richard is right. First, I am betting that Shiraz is contractually boud not to disclose certain information. Second, economies of scale mandate that much of this instrumentation is made in the same or a very few factories. The rest is the nuiance of the manufacturer. Powermatic has made a concerted effort of late to draw attention to their brand by trying to address suggestions of upgrades to their preimer products for the past year. Other manufacturers have approached this differently. Inviting a variety of manufacturers to make their postions public to a potentially very large consumer group for no actual cost is absolutely... priceless.

[Barry O'Mahony]

Exactly. Some of what is being asked for may be considered proprietary information. It could affect everything from competitive positioning, to negotiating leverage with the factories.