Help with matching an old color from Dad's work 40 years ago!

[Scott Davis]

I am lucky to have some kid's bedroom pieces my Dad made for me when I was born. I have been working on a bedside table to match the others, desk, dresser, and bed frames. My Dad used the same finish on all the pieces, they were made about 35-40 years ago and my son who is 5 is using them now.

His pieces were all ash, mine are red oak as there was no ash I could find. He finished them all with Matco Danish oil in medium walnut. He thinks, but is not sure, some of the pieces were rubbed with a layer or two of bees wax.

Today I did a trial piece of the oak with the Danish oil. It was not pretreated, just sanded. No wood conditioner. Please see attached pics below one with flash and one without. His pieces are on the bottom, with a little more shine. All of his older pieces have a slightly more 'yellow' or 'warm' hint to them. This could very well be age, probably is. I am not sure if the beeswax would correct this, or if I should try something else. I have very little finishing experience, and not even sure what my choices would be. With my schedule I have very little time for woodworking (basically 2 hours during nap time for 3 kids under 5 on Saturday) and so I learn a lot from online videos and hope not to screw it up on weekends when I get my chance! Been working on this project with one drawer for a year! But had fun learning, and first drawer I built. Thankfully it is square and rides smooth!

photo 2.jpgphoto 1.jpg

Anyone have any thoughts on what to try? Or just do what he did and wait another 40!

Thanks!

Scott

[Raymond Fries]

You could take a sample of what your dad did and a piece of your red oak to a paint store that can make a custom finish. Maybe you could get some white oak and get a custom finish made. I think it might be hard to get a wood that is red to look like yellow as the ash does not have the same red tone. Maybe you could refinish your dad's stuff to match your red oak.

Good Luck...

[Troy Turner]

I think there's going to be too many variables to try and get it just right. Age for one. Even if you were to find the exact brand and color he used, each batch has it's own characteristics. Even now adays, if you buy two cans of the same stain, it's best to mix them together so your project will have the same color.

Have you tried looking and ordering some ash online?

[Steve Kohn]

Considering how the ash borer continues to sweep thru the country I am amazed that you cannot find ash.....and cheaply. I think you are going to have a very difficult time in getting oak to match up with ash. I'd really suggest you investigate having ash shipped to you if you can't find it locally.

[Steve Schoene]

Oak doesn't need wood conditioner to prepare for stain or dye. Getting red oak to look like ash isn't going to be easy either. It looks like you need a bit of yellow coloration to get closer. A golden oak stain--perhaps Watco Golden Oak. If one coat is too much yellow or your test samples you can mix Watco Golden Oil with the natural Watco to lighten it, Lots of test sample all the way to the final top coat to make sure.

By the way, usually it is better to NOT match the other pieces. Just finishing them to be compatible with the older items, but with a finish far enough away that it won't look like you tried for a match and didn't quite get it right. There is absolutely on rule that all the woods in a room should match.

[Scott Davis]

Thanks for all your replies.
I will try mixing in a coat of the golden oak on a sample and see what it looks like.
Like I said, I have very little time for the hobby....it took a year to build what I have! I will probably just finish it like it is and go on to something else. It is done already anyway. I am pretty sure it would take me 10 years to refinish the 6 or 7 things I have that he did. The painting part isn't my favorite anyway.

[Michael Dunn]

Try Sherwin Williams. I had them stain match something for me and was quite pleased. I used their BAC wiping stain.

I built the shelving in the back using hickory and had them match the stain of the desk which was oak.

[Prashun Patel]

It is quite possible the yellowing of the original is due to the natural yellowing of some oil-based finishes over time.

If you are not averse to trying your hand with dyes, you might consider applying a yellow dye first before the danish oil. Transtint has lemon yellow and amber colors that might do the trick for you. While it may take a few test pieces to dial in to the right concentration, I believe you'll get closer in the end than trying to mix in a stain.

[Tom McMahon]

Scott, that should be an easy match, all you need is a dye toner to add the yellow over what you already have. Dye toners are available in several shades of yellow in aerosol cans, or you can make your own if you have spray equipment. A toner is just a dyed clear coat. There are dye or pigment toners, the dye is transparent.

[Scott Davis]

Thanks all, some great suggestions.

I could take a shelf down to Sherwin and see what they have.

I have never used a dye toner, but that sounds reasonable too. Where are they purchased? I have never seen them before, I see a few online at Rockler but not right color.

Not adverse to learning a dye either with some practice boards. Have a bunch of scrap and like to learn.

Thanks for suggestions where to actually purchase some of these options.

Scott

[Tom McMahon]

Scott, Mohawk wood finishing sells several different yellow dye toners.

[Scott Davis]

I am bumping this old thread for an update. I went to Sherwin Williams and they made a stain for me which is very close. This weekend I was able to stain the bedside table talked about above.

I have a few questions now:
1) I thought I was probably done after staining (it looks great!), but in showing the pics to my Dad he said he thought is needed a protective finish now, and that he thinks he put a few coats of beeswax on the other pieces when they were completed for this purpose. Can anyone comment on the need for further products after an oil stain is applied?
2) I sanded the piece completely smooth all over, but now a few of the panels in the sides are not completely smooth. After the oil cures, should another light sanding be done? Maybe before the final application of something protective?

Thanks so much. Sorry for the noob questions. This is very instructional though. I did search but did not find any threads talking about beeswax after oil. It seems beeswax isn't used for much, but that is what Dad thinks he did 35 years ago.

Scott

I will post pics when I am done! Very happy with it. This project was my first real piece of indoor furniture.

[Jason Roehl]

A stain by itself is not very protective (except for exterior stains, which are different animals altogether). Yes, you would definitely want to add some form of film finish to protect the stain, particularly if the furniture is in a kids room.

DO NOT sand at this point. Stain penetrates, but not as deeply as you might imagine. Were you to sand, you would likely sand through the stain in many places, causing ugliness that would be difficult to fix. When you sand next will depend on which finish you select. Finishes that have a very thin dry thickness should be applied in several coats before sanding is even considered. Thicker film finishes can be sanded after a couple coats. Generally, I don't sand anything after stain until right before the last coat of finish.

[David Eisenhauer]

What Jason said - all of it. And, beeswax by itself is also not very protective. Apology if I am wrong, but it sounds like you haven't done much finishing in the past. Many woodworkers start out using a "Danish" oil type finish, applied by hand that, that results in a beautiful finish highlighting the figure of the wood. Problem is, it is not a very protective finish at all, especially where any moisture or heavy handling may occur (kitchens, bathrooms, kids area, etc.). It may be easiest for you to now apply a "wipe-on" type clear polyurethane finish over your piece (definitely before any beeswax) that will offer lots more protection and should not reduce the beauty of the wood figure excessively unless you apply a crazy number of coats. Research "wipe-on poly" or something like that to get an idea of what I am talking about if you want to add some more protection. Essentially, one thins the poly from the can with mineral spirits or Naptha and uses a rag to wipe it on (and not having to deal with brush marks). Repeat over a few coats after drying each coat.

[Scott Davis]

Indeed I have not done much finishing! My projects have been mostly outdoor ones, so different materials. The indoor ones were painted with spray gun. So this is my first time with indoor stains.

This advice is very helpful, will work on a couple coats of poly. With any luck, I can post some pics when I am done.

Thanks!

Scott