Planer Heads

[Rob Will]

Have been looking at a Powermatic WP2410 15hp. planer.
It appears to have a helical carbide insert head with the teeth striking the work at 90 degrees to the direction of rotation.

Oliver is selling a planer that looks like it shared a boat ride with the PM WP2510. Looking at the spec sheets, the Oliver 4470 is identical.
What is the difference? (aside from the $2000 in price)

Does anybody know how well the PM WP2510 or the Oliver 4470 handle figured wood?

The Oliver literature is confusing in that they show two different helical heads. One version is a 30mm 2-sided insert, the other version is a 15mm 4-sided style (a Byrd?). Any idea what they are actually installing in the planer?

Ever get the feeling that people selling this stuff have no idea how it is equipped?

http://olivermachinery.net/machines.asp?machine=4470

http://www.wmhtoolgroup.com/index.cf...il&iid=6056067

[Dev Emch]

First, I would caution you hear when you use the term oliver to describe newer, blue machines. Oliver did have their own insert heads which were called ITCH heads and its a unique design. The ITCH heads are killer on pagen grain wood such as walnut burl and curly maple, etc. But this can lead to major confusion. Are we talking green oliver or blue oliver. The green oliver is an ITCH design whereas the blue oliver is an import.

Not much is known about the blue oliver in oliver circles. We know these machines are pretty good, as far as imports go, but not as comparable as some of the green machines. Also, these machines (blue) come from plants in taiwan, etc.

Now powermatic has also been busy securing OEM contracts in taiwan as well. So it would be no surprise if one machine were gold and one machine were blue. Blue oliver bought the rights to use the OLIVER name from the Oliver Machinery Co. This left the current parts franchise in the hands of Rich Fink who in turn renamed the company Eagle Machinery Co. He is still in the old Oliver Plant #1 and will build any oliver model you wish brand new if you bring your check book. He has all the drawings and patterns as well as many of the older machine tools used in the hey day. Believe it or not, the US government has a huge number of oliver machines in use and they actually have to purchase parts today from Eagle Machinery.

Back to the blue versus gold. I would be skeptical of any import insert head. There is no need to go to an insert head if the shear angle of the insert is zero degrees. You can save your money. However, if the shear angle is positive, than that head can do wonders on pagen grain lumber. But that design belongs to Byrd and is called the SHELIX. The S in SHELIX means Shear Helical Head. So you may wish to ask Bryd if they are doing on OEM contract for either powermatic or blue oliver to see if the head is legit and not a counterfit head design.

Boy, its getting harder and harder to go toy shopping these days. You as a consumer really need to have your ducks in a row before you lay down your dead presidents!

[Rob Will]

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<v:shapetype stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" oreferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">Is this the ITCH head that has such good reviews?</v:shapetype>
<v:shapetype stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" oreferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600">The PM planer looks totally diffrent but the Oliver has a photo that looks like the real deal ITCH. (?????) <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><vath o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></vath><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype>

[Dev Emch]

YUP! That is a green oliver ITCH head. Looks like it may be from a 299 planer. I need to go back and check out the head on the blue oliver. How come the segmented feed roller is upside down? Is this photo upside down or is this from a stratoplane maybe?

The actual ITCH head also had its own knife grinder that had a wheel capable of grinding carbide. Now, the problem is that you cannot lock the cutter head as you can do with straight knives so it takes a bit of practice to get the skill down. But as the wheel goes left and right, the cylinder has to move back and forth. This allows you to grind the insert in place and pick up the right shear approach to the incomming wood.

I just looked at the blue oliver webiste and saw their helical head. This is not an ITCH head. Where did you see a head that looks like the green oliver ITCH head?

[tod evans]

rob, in the same price bracket this is also an option???
http://www.minimax-usa.com/jointer-p...ormulasp1.html
i own one and can attest to the build quality...02 tod

[Paul B. Cresti]

Rob,
I would have to agree with Tod. If you are willing to spend that kind of money IMHO you should be looking at machines like the MM/SCM. I would never spend that kind of money on an Asian made machine. What happens when you need parts down the line? They clone today and are gone tomorrow. When spending big $$ go with an established company. If it were me my choices would be old iron, General (Canadian made ones), Northfield, and of course European machines like MM/SCM

[Rob Will]

I just looked at the blue oliver webiste and saw their helical head. This is not an ITCH head. Where did you see a head that looks like the green oliver ITCH head?[/quote]

Just what kind of helical head is that?
It looks like the style that Powermatic is using in their big jointers?
Another location in the manual shows what appears to be a Byrd head?

Ok guys, if I back off of the PM and Oliver 24"ers. Here's the deal:
I like new things (no time to rebuild old, and I like slick)
I really don't like electronics anyway (my VCR flashes 12:00).
Having said that.......
How do these different cutterheads perform?
I am really leaning toward something helical (ITCH looks good on the old).
Do rubber outfeed rollers help or is most damage done by the pressure plate?

Thanks

[lou sansone]

add to the list of decent new machines
griggio, casadei and northfield

add to the list of older machines Newman, Buss, Oilver

lou