Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38

Thread: Pure Tung Oil or Polymerized Tung Oil?

  1. #1
    John Russell Guest

    Pure Tung Oil or Polymerized Tung Oil?

    I have ben searchning through options for finishing a dining table that is almost finished using cherry and birdseye maple. I read the recent Wood Magazine article and those options do not seem to work because of either the mixture of woods or my desire for a non-yellowing almost clear finish.

    One local woodworking shop recommended General Finishes Arm R Seal but I am concerned that might yellow. Another recommended pure Tung oil thinned with mineral spirits. Another person recommended McClosky's Wipe On Tung Oil Finish. In searching for pure tung oil I found all the discussions about products that do not contain tung oil, but have tung oil in the title.

    I also found a product (Sutherland Wells) that is described as polymerized tung oil. I guess it has been heated and then thinned with mineral spirits.

    I admit to being confused. Does anyone have experience with the Polymerized Tung oil product as a dining table finish?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Southport, NC
    Posts
    3,147
    Any and all oil finishes or oil based finishes yellow over time. Lacquer yellows also. Pure tung oil goes on slightly less yellow and yellows more slowly with time than linseed oil or linseed oil based finishes.

    The least yellowing both initially and over time is a waterborne varnish or poly varnish.

    I recommend you test your choices on some of your scrap to determine the extent of any color change in the wood due to the finish.
    Howie.........

  3. #3
    John Russell Guest
    I do not have spraying capability yet and my guess is that waterborne varnishes must need to be sprayed. When I read poly varnish I think of wipe on products and those might work for what I have in mind, but my guess is those can also be sprayed.

    I can accept a little yellowing over time and so maybe thinned pure tung oil is the way to go. This table will not get hard use. It is a special occassion table so it will not be used everyday so an extra-durable finish is not necessary, but one that shows off the wood is what we are hoping to find. Thanks for the comments.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Collin County Texas
    Posts
    2,417
    John, at the Dallas WW show, David Marks said that he is using General Finishes Seal-A-Cell followed by multiple coats of Arm-R-Seal. If it is good enough for David, it should be good for any one.
    Best Regards, Ken

  5. #5
    John Russell Guest
    I did some test pieces with the Arm R Seal and it looks pretty nice. I think this must have some combination of oil, poly, and mineral spirits in it. After a couple of weeks it still has a nice look.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Shoreline, CT
    Posts
    2,923
    Polymerized tung oil gets tacky very quickly and can be hard to apply evenly over large areas--as a dining table would be.

    I don't like waterborne finishes very much, but they would fit your non-yellowing criterial closely, and be moderately durable. While they are often sprayed there are certainly varieties that will brush satisfactorily. The time or two I have done that, I found it best to brush it as if it were shellac, using a golden taklon watercolor wash brush (Winsor-Newton 580 series for example)

    I would check out www.homesteadfinishing.com for a good source of waterborne finishes and information on how to use them. I don't use them enough to have specific recommendations myself.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Conway, Arkansas
    Posts
    13,181
    Any finish will discolor over time....It may be 10 years or even 10 minutes, but all finishes will discolor....eventually.......
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Quebec city, Canada
    Posts
    41
    If you plan to use pure tung oil, I recommand you to test it with some cherry scrap. One of my friend had problem with pure tung oil and cherry. A finish specialist told us that there is some chemical product in cherry that cause a reaction with pure tung oil. The result of this is the tung oil seams to take more time to dry. It stays tacky and sticky.

    However, he didn't have this problem with polymerized tung oil.

    Since I'm not a specialist on finishing, and tell you my friend's experience with cherry and tung oil, I recommand you to make test with scrap.

    Maybe you won't have these problem, maybe you will have them.

    Is there someone here that had the same problem with cherry and tung oil ? I'm interested to know why this happen with cherry so if there is a specialist on finishing here, I'm looking foward for answers !
    The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. (Bertrand Russell)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Southport, NC
    Posts
    3,147
    John,

    >> my guess is that waterborne varnishes must need to be sprayed.

    No, waterborne poly varnishes can be either brushed or sprayed. In fact, most ameteur's brush them on. Minwax Polycrylic is a brush on poly varnish.

    >>When I read poly varnish I think of wipe on products and those might work for what I have in mind, but my guess is those can also be sprayed.

    Varnish is varnish. In its full strength state, it is brushed on. If it is thinned about 50% with mineral spirits it becomes a wiping varnish. Same stuff, just thinner. Any finish can be sprayed if you know how to do it.

    >> I can accept a little yellowing over time and so maybe thinned pure tung oil is the way to go.

    Pure tung oil is not a very good finish. It has no moisture or water vapor resistance nor does it have any abrasion protective qualities. Every time you spill a liquid or put a hot plate on the surface you will leave a mark on the surface. Finally, it has no longevity. You will have to re-treat your table every year or so to maintain any type of qualitiy appearence. All in all, pure tung oil is best thought of as a coloring treatment, not a finish.

    Your best bet if you have a light wood is to use a waterborne poly finish. But, waterborne products do not bring out any of the highlights in darker woods leaving them rather blah. If it were my table, I would first use boiled linseed oil on the darker wood masking off the lighter wood. Let the linseed oil dry for 4-5 days and then coat the whole tabletop with the waterborne finish.

    As always, you will only know how it will look if you try your finishes out on some scrap from the project. This will give you practice and you won't be surprised at the outcome. Professional and experienced finishers rarely just go ahead and apply a finish.
    Howie.........

  10. Ive been using 100% tung oil for a couple of years now, I love it. You do have to thin it for the first couple of coats to get good penetration, i thin it by half. but after that goes on normally. Eventually makes for a super tough coating, brings out great betina in the wood, its waterproof, impervious to most acids. I have found that polymerized tung oil can be i bit tacky after a while.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tomball, TX (30 miles NNW Houston)
    Posts
    2,747

    Exactly what finish have you been using?

    Quote Originally Posted by Angus MacGyver View Post
    Ive been using 100% tung oil for a couple of years now, I love it. You do have to thin it for the first couple of coats to get good penetration, i thin it by half. but after that goes on normally. Eventually makes for a super tough coating, brings out great betina in the wood, its waterproof, impervious to most acids. I have found that polymerized tung oil can be i bit tacky after a while.
    Angus,

    The properties you discribe are not chemically possible with 100% pure tung oil. Other than "patina" which tung oil will enhance. What brand are you using specifically?
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Lancaster, PA
    Posts
    273
    Quote Originally Posted by J. Scott Holmes View Post
    Angus,

    The properties you discribe are not chemically possible with 100% pure tung oil. Other than "patina" which tung oil will enhance. What brand are you using specifically?
    What can tung oil not do? My understanding is that tung oil (the pure stuff) is a drying oil, and will eventually harden. I do not know about its properties relating to acids though.

    Thanks,
    Rob

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tomball, TX (30 miles NNW Houston)
    Posts
    2,747
    It can't build a hard film coat.
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

  14. Well - you'll have to tell that to the Chinese

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Acheson View Post
    John,

    >> my guess is that waterborne varnishes must need to be sprayed.

    No, waterborne poly varnishes can be either brushed or sprayed. In fact, most ameteur's brush them on. Minwax Polycrylic is a brush on poly varnish.

    >>When I read poly varnish I think of wipe on products and those might work for what I have in mind, but my guess is those can also be sprayed.

    Varnish is varnish. In its full strength state, it is brushed on. If it is thinned about 50% with mineral spirits it becomes a wiping varnish. Same stuff, just thinner. Any finish can be sprayed if you know how to do it.

    >> I can accept a little yellowing over time and so maybe thinned pure tung oil is the way to go.

    Pure tung oil is not a very good finish. It has no moisture or water vapor resistance nor does it have any abrasion protective qualities. Every time you spill a liquid or put a hot plate on the surface you will leave a mark on the surface. Finally, it has no longevity. You will have to re-treat your table every year or so to maintain any type of qualitiy appearence. All in all, pure tung oil is best thought of as a coloring treatment, not a finish.

    Your best bet if you have a light wood is to use a waterborne poly finish. But, waterborne products do not bring out any of the highlights in darker woods leaving them rather blah. If it were my table, I would first use boiled linseed oil on the darker wood masking off the lighter wood. Let the linseed oil dry for 4-5 days and then coat the whole tabletop with the waterborne finish.

    As always, you will only know how it will look if you try your finishes out on some scrap from the project. This will give you practice and you won't be surprised at the outcome. Professional and experienced finishers rarely just go ahead and apply a finish.
    The traditional huanghuali wood furniture were pretty much all finished with pure tung oil and have lasted for centuries - It is a wood/oil combination that is absolutely one of the most beautiful woods (off course taste is individual) and the real antiques (and raw wood for that matter is very highly prized. It is said to take more than 100 years for the wood to reach its ultimate beauty. I had to take a huanghuali desk and chair and chair apar as they were in a container (with a lot of our other antiques) that was dropped over the side in a harbor during a transatlantic move - all the hide glue dissolved and the finish obviously too a beating. However - since it is a $50K+ piece it was worth my while (after the insurance company had paid for all the "destroyed" furniture) to take it fully apart, clean up the pieces, thoroughly dry all the pieces in a controlled fashion, assemble them and then re-finish from scratch with the only finish that does the piece/wood justice - straight tung oil. Sure it is a tedious process and is best done in multiple thin coats without sanding in between and the timing such that the next coat is applied between "rubbery" and "fully cured" stages. 14 coats is what I did (over a couple of weeks) and then rubbed out in multiple stesp to a pretty nice semi-gloss sheenwith an incredibley deep and rich lustre. The piece has been evaluated by a couple of high-end antique evaluators and they put it as "fully and originally restored" at a $75k+/- price range.

    The finish is very hard (obviously after the appropriate cure time) and water, alchohol resistant and shows off the wood beautifully.

    Granted, this is not a restoration project for the faint of heart and the finishing process is very involved - BUT - it can produce some absolutely beautiful and pretty durable results. It is one of the finishes that draws max beauty out of many different wood species. it obviously helped me a great deal to have learned about fine antique furniturerestoration from my dad, who was one of the premier furniture restorer in Europe (talking about real antiques 200+ years old).

    So - not an easy finish (in raw form) but worth it for the occasional exceptional piece. Some of the tung oil blends provide very nice results in a much more user friendly format.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Scott Holmes View Post
    It can't build a hard film coat.
    \I am not sure you have actually worked with pure tung oil - or you might have gotten the process wrong. What you write is not correct.

Similar Threads

  1. tung oil question
    By Ted Daigle in forum Project Finishing
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-18-2013, 12:27 PM
  2. Tung Oil, BLO, Danish Oil - is there a difference
    By Roger Barga in forum Project Finishing
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 11-12-2012, 1:15 PM
  3. Tung Trees (long)
    By Glenn Hodges in forum Turner's Forum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 04-11-2005, 1:35 PM
  4. Tung Oil
    By Mark Kelly in forum General Woodworking and Power Tools
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-17-2004, 3:10 PM
  5. Tung Oil Finish Practicality
    By Jim Young in forum General Woodworking and Power Tools
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 08-07-2003, 12:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •