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Thread: Designing a Cabinet without a back

  1. #1
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    Designing a Cabinet without a back

    Does anyone have any ideas on's the structural design of a cabinet with no back? The cabinets I am to build have no backs; they are to have a face frame and doors on both the front and the back because they will hang from the ceiling separating the kitchen from the dining room and need to be accessed from both sides. I know how much strength a back adds to any cabinet; I am just wondering is there any special considerations I should take into account when having no back and a face frame instead.

    Thanks.
    My woodworking theory: Measure with a micrometer, Mark with chalk, Cut with an ax.

  2. #2
    Glue and clamp two frames on and you'll be okay using three-quarter plywood top and make sure you have backing in the ceiling
    Thanks John
    Don't take life too seriously. No one gets out alive anyway!

  3. #3
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    Be sure to use overlay doors, not inset. Wracking is much less obvious.

  4. #4
    Try to assemble and glue-up the face frames at the same time and clamp them back to back while the glue dries so they don't try to twist the cabinet.

  5. #5
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    That's the sort of box where I'd do my strongest construction because IMO overkill is just enough long term. Starts with proper blocking in the ceiling, going to need to catch as many joists as possible, could be surface mounted 2X4's with structural screws like Simpsons or fastenmaster. I would dado the shelves in to the sides top and bottom, maybe a fixed middle too if they are tall, I would add dowels post carcus glue up drilling through the outside, just bang them in with glue and flush trim do a finished end panel on any exposed ends to cover the holes. Leave ears or dead space at the sides/top so the top mostly covers the blocking. Make sure it's tight to the blocking, shim the blocking so it is level to make install easier. Screw through the ears/frame sideways into the blocking to hold the case with serious #10 screws. Do not screw up through the top partition into the ceiling and think that is enough. Fasteners have great shear strength, pull out strength not so much. You can cover the screws by wrapping the top with a crown or bed molding. Make sense? Again, frame and sides must go past the top piece of plywood just a little less than the thickness of your blocking to create cleats for fastening in a shear fashion. Don't want your china to wind up on your lap!

  6. #6
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    Peter--

    I follow what you are saying, but isn't this a little contradictory?:

    surface mounted 2X4's with structural screws

    Do not screw up through the top partition into the ceiling...pull out strength not so much.

    pull-out resistance is adequate on a 2 x 4, but not on a cabinet top? Huh?

    Actually, my preference, when there is access, is a through-bolt connection into the space above (to blocking above the joists, or second-best, between the joists. Lags into the joists work, too. Can be covered with a "false ceiling" in the cab.




  7. #7
    Peter are you assuming the ceiling joists are running 90 to cabinet if not he's going to need backing in the ceiling in any event Well-glued face frames on both sides to three-quarter plywood top should work just fine
    Thanks John
    Don't take life too seriously. No one gets out alive anyway!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by John A langley View Post
    Peter are you assuming the ceiling joists are running 90 to cabinet if not he's going to need backing in the ceiling in any event Well-glued face frames on both sides to three-quarter plywood top should work just fine
    Im not assuming anything, I suggested proper blocking in the ceiling, if that means cutting out the drywall to run across several joists then so be it. From there he can repair ceiling and block surface mount catching the added blocking. He needs to catch several joists, how he does that depends on field conditions not specified.

    Jerry, the lags I'm talking about are a far cry from screws, Simpson structural "screws" are huge, aggressive, they have a pullout resistance of around 1200 pounds each. So use at least 8 to install surface mounted blocking, I'd stand under that, or behind it....unless he's in an earthquake zone. Honestly probably better to bolt the blocking or use some sort of hangers where all connections are shear.

  9. #9
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    Whenever I mount a cabinet in that situation,I lay 2x4's on top of the ceiling joists (running in the opposite direction),then run threaded rods through the cabinet and up through the 2x4's with wide washers and lock nuts on both ends.The only way that cabinet will come down after that is if the whole ceilng comes down.

  10. #10
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    The cabinets I am to build have no backs; they are to have a face frame and doors on both the front and the back because they will hang from the ceiling separating the kitchen from the dining room and need to be accessed from both sides
    Nothing to add about the strength of the cabinets - but - have you taken the load bearing capacity of the ceiling into consideration?
    A lot of attics aren't designed to hold any weight and can't be used for storage.
    The builder of our house made that clear to us when we moved in.
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  11. #11
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    Thanks for the replies. The cabinets are only 17" deep (standard 12" plus a wall thickness that was removed) so I don't think there would be any load bearing issue because only light china will be stored in the cabinets. I'm planing to use rabbited doors to match the existing style so a perfect gap isn't neccisarry.

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