House Electric Utility Woes ($$$)

[Bob Johnson2]

You must all be wrong, I just looked up the CPI (inflation rate) and it's down .5% for Dec and it's only up 3.5% for all of 2005. You must be reading your bills wrong. I'm sure politicians wouldn't fudge the books.

[Todd Burch]

I've done some research, and here is what I've come up with.

My current rate is $0.163 per kwh. That has just about doubled from $0.084 in March 2002 (3/2002 was 5 months after I moved into this new house).

My hot water is gas. The windows are new, double pane, but not insulated. Good for sound control, but they are not energy efficient.

Last month's kwh usage was 1656 kwh, down 4kwh from the same month last year. I had my electric company email my my past bills since 2/2002. I will put them in a spread sheet later to check usage.

I did a few calculations for different applicances around the house. My radio uses 12watts. 8 hours a day, 21 days a month, it costs my about $0.33 a month. Nothing.

The lights in my study though, 14 hours a day, 3 lights, 120 watts each, 30 days a month, run over $24/month. I think I'll be looking to replace them with some compact fluorescents. That should be a short payback.

Formula = kilowatts * hours-per-day * days-per-month * kwh_rate. For calculating something like a 60w light bulb, for kilowatts, I use 60/1000.

My nice pretty porch all lit up in the evenings... 5 lights @ 120 watts each, 4 hours a day, 30 days a month - almost $12/month... humm... gotta weigh that one. $144/year? It adds up, don't it!

I'll look into getting a meter on the fridge and the A/C systems. Not sure how to estimate their usage. I'll start another thread on that.

Thanks everyone. Todd

[Jeff Cybulski]

Todd,

I have a neighbor with one of those ground water circulator things, (geothermal heat pump?). His bill is typically $100 less than mine. I didn't know they existed when I built the house, but it will be on my next house.

I live outside of Tulsa and have an all electric 3000 sq/ft and a geothermal heatpump. I'm on a Co-Op that actually buys the power from Kansas. Avg. bill is around $110 a month and that's with 220 heat in the shop and a pond pump that't been running due to the higher then normal winter temps.

The Geothermal is expensive to install ( about $15K) but if you are going to live in the house for a long time ( 10-15 years) I'm told it's the way to go in the long run.

Jeff

[David Fried]

Todd,

Don't forget those other charges. Delivery charges, etc. add almost thirty dollars to my bill. My understanding is the refridge is one of the biggest expenses since ot runs twenty-four/seven.

Dave Fried

[Frank Hagan]

What size is the pool pump? Do a cost analysis on it. AMPS x VOLTS = WATTS ... divide that by 1,000 to get your KWH used per hour, and multiply by your rate per KWH ... and that's what the pool pump is costing every hour it runs.

15 years ago, there was a trend to start installing large pumps on pools to power spa jets. Where they used to run a 1/2 or 3/4 HP pump, they switched first to having an auxilliary booster for the spa ... 2 HP or more. Then, to reduce costs, they just used the big pump for the pool circulation. 2 HP or 3 HP pumps are not uncommon.

Let's say your pump is 230V, 14.5 AMPS ... 3335 watts or 3.35 KWH. Times my rate of 8.5 cents per KWH, that pump would cost me .28 per hour to operate. Run it six hours a day, and I have 1.68 per day, or $50 a month.

The solution is to reduce the number of hours you are running the pump. The guidelines for pools say you should filter an amount of water equal to the total gallons in the pool. Calculate the gallons in your pool using the formula LENGTH x WIDTH x AVERAGE DEPTH to find the cubic feet, then multiply by 7.5 for the gallons in a cubic foot.

Find the performance curve of the pump. It will give you the GPM at various "head" ratings. Head is a resistance rating, and you can convert from PSI to head pretty easily. Take the normal, clean filter pressure and multiply by 2.31 for the head in the system at that time. For instance, 18 PSI equals about 40' of head.

On the pump curve, read across at the "foot of head" line and see what GPM your pump is putting out.

Typically, a 2 HP pool pump is capable of about 80 GPM with 2" plumbing. Most residential pools are smaller than people think ... a 12 x 20 pool that is an average of 5.5' deep is under 10,000 gallons. Divide by 80 to get the number of minutes you run the pump, and you find just over 2 hours.

Running it 3 hours saves you half of what your pool company first recommended. They may have even recommended longer run times ... 8 or 12 hours. That was very common with the smaller pumps.

Another alternative to a single large pump is to obtain a 2 speed motor. As you halve the speed of the impeller, you cut the flow to exactly half. But the amp draw is about 1/4 of that on high. You adjust the run time to the rate that filters all the water in the pool each day ... 6 hours in the example above ... and you save about half the energy cost doing the exact same job.

[Art Mulder]

I'll look into getting a meter on the fridge and the A/C systems. Not sure how to estimate their usage.

Todd,

If you kept them... check the manual/receipt/paperwork that came with your Fridge. Up here in Canada, all new major appliances come with an "EnerGuide" sticker on/inside them when new. This is a huge - 6-8" diameter - sticker, which you can't miss. On this is estimated electric usage for the appliance.

If your fridge is more than 15 years old, then from what I've read, you may want to think about replacing it.

[W Craig Wilson]

Look carefullly at a bill from your old house and one from the new. Some utilities will increase the rates based on the type of service - 100 amp vs 200. You might have moved up into a new billing neighborhood.

[Todd Burch]

Frank - this is GREAT information.

The main pump is a 2.5HP Hayward model. It is listed, for amps, as SF 13.0-11.8. I'm guessing "SF" is service factor, but I'm not sure which number to use. If I figure it's using 13AMPS, that's 220 volts * 13 AMPs, or 2.86kwh. It runs 6 hours a day, so that's about $85/month. Ouch.

Then, there is the Polaris cleaner pump too that runs 3 hours a day.

Now, on to your other info...

When I filled my pool, I calculated about 14,000 gallons. Just measuring it per your instruction, it is kidney shaped, but "squaring it off" yields roughly 30' x 15' by 4.5' avergage depth, or around 15,200 gallons.

My clean filter pressure is about 22 PSI. 22PSI * 2.31 = 50.82 "foot". Reading the chart for my motor, it says 140 GPM @ 50' head. So, 15,200 / 140 = 108 minutes. Woo-Hoo!! 2 hours baby!! I was running it at 8 hours and cut it down to 6 out of penny pinching. Now, I can cut it down to 2 hours and be comfortable with that !! I'm certain I have 2" pipe.

So, going from 6 hours a day to 2 hours a day takes me from $85/month to $29/month! WOW!! HOORAY!! Frank, I owe you lunch.

Todd

[Bob D.]

Here's a site that can help you determine if your meter's accuracy.
http://www.csgnetwork.com/kwhourscalc.html

Generic Electrical Energy Cost Calculator
http://www.csgnetwork.com/elecenergycalcs.html

and many more here
http://www.csgnetwork.com/constructionconverters.html

[Bob Weisner]

[QUOTE]My current rate is $0.163 per kwh. That has just about doubled from $0.084 in March 2002 (3/2002 was 5 months after I moved into this new house).


16.3 CENTS A KILOWATT??!!!! Have you looked into putting up a windmill or switching electric providers? Are there any Municipal Electric Utilities near you? One town about 30 miles from me has electric rates of just 3.6 cents a kilowatt!!

[Monte Milanuk]

Hmm.... guess I can't complain w/ a ~2.6cts / kwh utility rate... gotta love that hydro power

[Dan Connolly]

search the net for something called "kill a watt" (I think thats the right name, its a digital meter you plug into the wall plug them plug whatever (refridge, light bulb ect.) and it will read the cost of running that device for you.

[Cecil Arnold]

I think Jay hit on something. Get your A/C checked. If you are low on freon it (they) will tent to run longer to cool things off DAMHIKT and four years is about the time they start to leak, no mater what the installer says.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Might I ask who your provider is? That rate is almost as much as my CP&L business rate, which is considerably higher than the Reliant house (all electric) rate. That may be because we're still in the first year 'locked in price'...

KC

[Frank Hagan]

Frank - this is GREAT information.

The main pump is a 2.5HP Hayward model. It is listed, for amps, as SF 13.0-11.8. I'm guessing "SF" is service factor, but I'm not sure which number to use. If I figure it's using 13AMPS, that's 220 volts * 13 AMPs, or 2.86kwh. It runs 6 hours a day, so that's about $85/month. Ouch.

Then, there is the Polaris cleaner pump too that runs 3 hours a day.

Now, on to your other info...

When I filled my pool, I calculated about 14,000 gallons. Just measuring it per your instruction, it is kidney shaped, but "squaring it off" yields roughly 30' x 15' by 4.5' avergage depth, or around 15,200 gallons.

My clean filter pressure is about 22 PSI. 22PSI * 2.31 = 50.82 "foot". Reading the chart for my motor, it says 140 GPM @ 50' head. So, 15,200 / 140 = 108 minutes. Woo-Hoo!! 2 hours baby!! I was running it at 8 hours and cut it down to 6 out of penny pinching. Now, I can cut it down to 2 hours and be comfortable with that !! I'm certain I have 2" pipe.

So, going from 6 hours a day to 2 hours a day takes me from $85/month to $29/month! WOW!! HOORAY!! Frank, I owe you lunch.

Todd

Sounds familiar! I worked for Hayward for 14 years, and was their western division Technical Service Manager (I've been away from them for 8 years now).

The disadvantage to all of this is that if you reduce the filtration cycle too much, you may have an algae bloom. During winter, you can get away with much shorter filtration cycles. But you may find you have to increase the time somewhat during summer, when heat plays a role with the sanitation. What happens is that without the water in motion, you get areas in the pool where the sanitizer is not distributed, and it gets "used up". So you may get algae on the steps, or along the curve of the bottom on the side that faces south, etc. Try it at two or three hours, but check the pool each day to see if you are starting to see signs of poor filtration. When it starts warming up, you may have to increase the filtration cycle. More sunlight = more chance for algae.

The motor labeling in the pool industry is funny ... there's a lot of "marketing" going on. Your motor is almost certainly really a 2 HP motor if it had a normal service factor of 1.3. They reduce the service factor to 1.0 and increase the HP rating. Its called "up rating" in the industry. It sounds like they have gotten more creative with the dual amp rating. Hard to tell which is the right one, unless you put an amp meter on it. The pump curve is probably pretty accurate; Hayward was always a pretty honest company in that regards (each company publishes their own pump curves, without any independent verification).

Remember to reduce your Polaris cleaner run time too; if I remember those correctly, they should only run when the main pool pump is on. If you are close to the point where it needs to be replaced, consider a "suction side" cleaner such as a Pool Vac, Kreepy Krawley or Barracuda that doesn't require a pump motor to run. I can't remember, but I think the Polaris will use a 3/4 or 1 HP motor, so you're using quite a bit of electricity to maintain your pool.