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Thread: Padding Shellac

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Posts
    9

    Padding Shellac

    I've done a little work with shellac and generally don't like the results I get. I'm trying it again, however, on a cedar blanket chest so help me out:

    It generally seems a lot more time intensive than it sounds in the articles and forums I've read. I start by brushing on (Zinser "clear" by the way) with a good quality china bristle brush and follow up with the pad.

    Runs seem to be best left until hard. I used a razor blade to scrape runs and drips flat followed by gray abrasive pad before the first pad coat. I wet it more than I have in the past and replenished more often. This helped. How wet should my pad be?

    Had fewer runs and drips than with the brush but still have them at corners and edges and will have to do the razor blade trick again before next coat.

    I applied pretty heavy pressure while padding. Should this be the case? It seemed like I had to to get the shellac out of the pad onto the surface not because it was sticking.

    What else am I missing?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,578
    What cut are you using? If you used the Zinser out of the can it was probably too heavy. I like a 1-2lb cut for the first coat, then keep some alcohol handy to use when padding. I'm sure other, more experienced folks, have some better advice.
    Good, Fast, Cheap--Pick two.

  3. My favorite finish is shellac, but that wasn't the case when I tried to pad it on. I switched to brushing it on, and the results are great. I use Taklon brushes sold for watercolors in art supply stores. They aren't cheap, but mine are going on 6 years old and have a lot of life left in them. The main problem is having the shellac too thick. I mix my shellac from flakes, and I have no idea what the "cut" is, but it is as thin as water. The shellac dries so fast, that several coats can be applied in one day. I also like to add "Shellac Wet" sold by Homestead Finishing products, it helps slow the set of the shellac and lets you brush out fat edges and runs. With careful brushing, I can get away with a quick rubout, using 400-600 grit paper, followed by steel wool with mineral oil as a rubbing lubricant. Depending on the sheen I want I many times use a little 4F pumice on the steel wool. This gives a higher sheen.
    Go to http://americanfederalperiod.com/det...n_articles.htm, for a more detailed description of a shellac finish.
    Rob Millard

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Soddy Daisy, Tn
    Posts
    12
    Hello everyone I'm new to this site.
    I have been using shellac on most of my projects. I have found that spraying works well. I start with 2 coats 3-4 lb cut. Then going to a 2lb cut and rubbing with 000 steelwool between coats.

  5. #5
    A well tuned cabinet card scraper will gently level the surface better than sanding.

    Get some 95+% Isopropal Alcohol to thin it out some and flow it on as the last few coats. The isopropal acts as a retarder and levels nicely for me. It took trial and ERROR to come to this technique for me.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Posts
    2,266
    When I am hand applying shellac, I brush the first coat, and then pad with a rubber, which is the same type I use when French polishing, which I don't often do. With the rubber, I can control the flow with hand pressure, and there are few if any drips or runs. Use a medical guaze for the innards as it is lint free, and a well washed cotton or muslin for the outer portion of the pad. I keep my rubbers in an air tight plastic jar, and use them over and over till the muslin wears out.
    I spray when I can, but that is not in the winter.
    Alan Turner
    Philadelphia Furniture Workshop

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Posts
    9

    Thumbs down

    I'm nearing the end and very unhappy with the results. If I could grind it all off and start over I would but that would not really work.

    I've been padding shellac onto the project over and over for the past weeks and the finish just isn't building up. There's a scratch on the top of the box that I evidently made while handling and I feather-sanded it out but no matter how many coats i've gone over it with it isn't building up and blending in.

    Right now I'm convinced never to use shellac again and I wish I never had. Thanks for the help but I'm evidently missing something major and all the articles I'm reading are no help. My project is going to look like crap but valuable lesson learned.

    Thanks anyway

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Conway, Arkansas
    Posts
    13,181
    Mike,

    Shellac, like any other top coat we apply, has to be a process and technique learned. You CAN take all that shellac off. Wet a rag with DNA and start wipping it off. Shellac does build.....but if you're using to thin a "cut", then it will take "forever" to get a decent build. Brushing or padding, use a 1-1/2 or 2 pound cut. Could be that you're not loading the pad with enough shellac to get your build and too much pressure on the pad only makes that much "less" shellac go on for the build. Lite pressure is all it takes and reload your pad often. Just try it on a scrap board. You'll soon see that shellac is really a good finish and easy enough to apply once you figure it out.

    The mistake I made when trying shellac for the first time? I made myself learn about applying shellac on a "real" furniture piece. BIG Mistake!!!!!! Learn about all your finishes on scrap material. Experiment and figure it out before applying to a furniture piece. There's a LOT LESS frustration that way. DAMHIKT!!!!!
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Posts
    9
    I am going to have to do something. Either sand/scrape flat the areas that need it or wipe it all off as you describe and try again. This is on the top of the chest top, flat and level so it should be the easiest part to finish. I had better success with the vertical surfaces.

    Loading the pad with more shellac seems counter intuitive if I want to fix uneven build-up but I'll give it a try.

    I now know why varnish was invented and everyone but antique restorers quit using shellac.

  10. Mike,

    Don't give up on shellac.
    It is without a doubt one of the best wood finishes available. I wonder if your shellac was fresh. I've never used the Zinser product before, as I mix my shellac from flakes. I know that shellac has a limited shelf life.

    As I said before brushing is superior to padding. Carefully sand the offending area out, and brush on several thin coats of shellac. Let it cure for a few day (3-5) and rub it out. Nearly all brushing problems are attributable to having the shellac to thick.

    I use varnish for table tops, but it is far more difficult to use. Shellac on the other hand seems almost effortless, and yet looks and feels great when rubbed out.
    Rob Millard

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Shoreline, CT
    Posts
    2,923
    Mike

    I agree with Rob. While shellac is a lot easier to deal with than shellac once you get the hang of it, it is quite different than varnish. Varnish you work slowly, evenly spreading each coat of varnish making sure you have no "holidays" where you have missed a spot.

    Shellac you work fast--never go back, missed spots can be gotten in the next application. Never let the brush or pad drag. When that happens you are dissolving the lower coatings too quickly, and you can get "rumpled" effects and other bad things. If you start to feel the hint of a drag STOP, let the previous layer dry more thoroughly before continuing. And the good brush as Rob recommended is really valuable. It doesn't hold massive amounts of shellac making it easier to apply thin coats, and it leaves almost no brush marks because the fibers are so thin. A thirty dollar varnish brush is likely to be a poor shellac brush.

    If you do have rough spots, you can let the shellac dry over night and sand it with 320 grit paper, or even 220 if things look bad (particularly if you haven't used a stain that cutting through would damage.) If your shellac is OK it should sand to a powder. If it clogs your paper, let it cure a bit longer, but if shellac isn't well dried overnight in a reasonably warm room, it is too old or otherwise defective. Sanding isn't necessary for adhesion like it is for varnish, only to level imperfections.

    But at the end of the day there are no better looking finishes, nor any so quick to apply. And it just isn't antique restorers or even guy like Rob making high style reproductions. I've see shellac finishes on modern high end gallery furniture as well--the sort of thing where a small end table may sell for $3,000

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Willamette Valley, Oregon
    Posts
    9
    Thanks Dennis, Steve, Rob. Someday somebody's going to show me how it's done but the best advice I've read is clean it off with dna and start over. The body of the chest is decent enough but the top of the top was beyond fixing. I bet you guys are doing some awsome finishes with shellac either brushed or padded or french polished on some awsome woodwork. I'm going back to varnish.
    Thanks again.

    After I finish the top and put hinges on I'll post some pics in this thread/forum.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Pickering, Ontario.
    Posts
    339
    Mike, take heart. If this was easy, then great finishing work would not be valued, just common place.
    I learned a good bit about antique furniture from an old man who was a master, and long gone for many years now. If you look around locally, you will know doubt find someone more than happy to share their knowledge and show you how to apply various finisihes hands on. This experience is far more useful than all the articles etc when using traditional materials and methods imho.

  14. Mike,

    I don't know how I forgot to mention padding lacquer, since it is one of my favorite finishes. I came to use after a accident ( with the emphasis on dent). I've found it very easy to pad it on to a uniform luster. It is as least as durable as shellac, and can be applied over any finish ( but I found out the hard way, you can't put shellac over it). While it will build on its own, I like to brush on a coat of shellac as a base to build on. The only drawback is its odor.
    Rob Millard
    Last edited by Rob Millard; 02-02-2006 at 8:03 PM.

  15. #15
    Rob,
    I didn't know that you could pad lacquer, can you explain further or let me know where to get some information on how to do this.
    Thanks
    Wayne

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