wipe on poly for kitchen use

[Howard Acheson]

Rob, wiping on a varnish finish has a number of advantages particularly for new finishers as brushing is a skill that requires instruction, practice and experience.

o Multiple coats can be applied in a day when using a thinned wiping varnish. Generally, a coat is dry to the touch in 30-90 minutes and a new coat can be applied.

o Little skill and practice is required to apply a wiped on finish.

o No chance of brush marks, drips or sags.

>> when you say minimizing the plastic look, I thought the idea was to build up the finish--does it end up looking worse that way?

"Looks" are a personal thing. But when you build up a thick finish of any clear finish, it begins to take on the appearence of something dipped into, or encased, with plastic. Some like this look while others like softer look. Things look even worse if the varnish is a poly varnish as it is less clear than a non-poly varnish and takes on a sort of cloudy look.

A good wiped on finish of six or so coats gives as much protection as it required and gives a nicer final look.

[Jim Becker]

And to "clarify" Howie's points....ALL of these finishes technically are "plastic", but some of them "look more like it" than others. It's quite subjective, but nearly everyone who understands finishes will agree that polyurethane varnishes generally don't look as good as alkyd or phenolic resin-based varnishes when it comes to clarity and enhancement of the natural reflections in the wood.

[Rob Blaustein]

Rob, wiping on a varnish finish has a number of advantages particularly for new finishers as brushing is a skill that requires instruction, practice and experience.

o Multiple coats can be applied in a day when using a thinned wiping varnish. Generally, a coat is dry to the touch in 30-90 minutes and a new coat can be applied.

o Little skill and practice is required to apply a wiped on finish.

o No chance of brush marks, drips or sags.

>> when you say minimizing the plastic look, I thought the idea was to build up the finish--does it end up looking worse that way?

"Looks" are a personal thing. But when you build up a thick finish of any clear finish, it begins to take on the appearence of something dipped into, or encased, with plastic. Some like this look while others like softer look. Things look even worse if the varnish is a poly varnish as it is less clear than a non-poly varnish and takes on a sort of cloudy look.

A good wiped on finish of six or so coats gives as much protection as it required and gives a nicer final look.

Thanks! Looks like wipe-on for me. Now remember that piece by Minich in FWW several months ago that compared wipe-on finishes--the one in which Minwax poly came out on top? I think that compared both poly and non-poly finishes didn't it--isn't that kind of comparing apples to oranges? I can't recall--did he make the point that Jim makes about giving up the look of alkyd or phenolic resin-based varnishes in favor of the protection afforded by poly. Is that the trade-off?

[Corey Hallagan]

I like to make my own mix as well. On the first coat I work it in a rubbing circular motion let stand for a while and then wipe off what is left. I do this until the wood won't drink up the finish any more. For some projects that I want a satin sheen then I add one more final coat and buff. For a high gloss finish I would then apply several coats in the same manner that you see "Norm" using alot on his show.
Corey

[Howard Acheson]

Rob, everything is a trade-off in finishing and finishes. Yes, poly is slightly more scratch resistant than non-poly varnishes but it's appearence suffers sligthly as a result. A good meduim oil varnish like Waterlox Original Gloss or Satin is virtually identical to most consumer grade poly varnishes in toughness. But, the Waterlox will look much nicer. IMO, there are few places where I would specifically opt for a poly varnish. Things like everyday kitchen tables in a household with kids or an entry way tabletop where car keys are thrown come to mind. Almost every other surface can be non-poly varnish.

The FWW write up was garbage and universally condemned. The products chosen, test method and results were fatally flawed.

I think I have published this before on this forum but here is something that should help. A friend of mine put it together years ago and it has worked well for many.

QUOTE

There are a number of suggested application regimens that are totally subjective. The number of coats in a given day, the % of cut on various coats, which coat to sand after, when to use the blade and a whole host of other practices are all minor differences between finishers. There are some things that I consider sacred when applying a wipe-on finish.

If you are making your own wipe-on the mix is scientific - thin. I suggest 50/50 with mineral spirits because it is easier to type than any other ratio and easy to remember.

The number of coats in a given day is not important. Important is to apply a wet coat with an applicator and merely get it on. Think of a 16 year old kid working as a busboy at Denny's you have sent over to wipe off a table. The applicator should be wet but not soaked. The applicator can be a paper towel, half a T-shirt sleeve or that one sock left after a load of washing. Get it on then leave it alone. The surface should not be glossy or wet looking. If you have missed a spot, ignore it - you will get it on the next coat. If you try and fix a missed spot you will leave a mark in the finish.

Timing for a second coat involves the pinkie test. Touch the surface with your pinkie. If nothing comes off you are ready for another coat. If was tacky 5 minutes ago but not now, apply your next coat just as you applied the previous coat. Remember, you are wet wiping not flooding. After applying the second coat, let it fully dry for 48 hours. Using 320 paper and a sanding block ligthtly sand the surface flat. Now, begin applying more coats. Do not sand between coats unless you have allowed more than 24 hours to elapse since the prior coat. The number of coats is not critical - there is no critical or right number to apply. For those who need a rule, four more coats on non-critical surfaces or six more coats on surfaces that will get abraded seems to work.

After your last coat has dried at least over night you will have boogers in the surface. You should not have marks in the surface because you ignored application flaws. You may have dust, lint and, if you live in Texas, bug legs. Use a utility knife blade at this point. Hold it between your thumb and forefinger, near the vertical, and gently scrape the surface. Gentle is the important word - no harder than you would scrape your face. If you start scraping aggressively you will leave small cut marks in the surface. After you have scraped to the baby butt stage gently abrade the surface with 320 dry paper or a gray ScotchBrite. Clean off the surface. Now, leave the area for two hours and change your clothes. Apply your last coat with a bit more care than the previous coats and walk away.

An anal person is going to have a tough time with this process. Missed spots have to be ignored. Wet wipe, don't flood. Scraping to babies butt smooth means scraping no harder than scraping a babies butt. Ignoring any of these will leave marks that are tough to get out. Getting these marks out requires some agressive sanding to flatten out the surface and starting over.

Jim Kull

END QUOTE

Finally, It works better to use a gloss varnish for all coats except the last. The flatteners in semi-gloss and satin tend to rapidly fall out of suspension when the finish is highly thinned. If you want a non-gloss finish, use it only on the final coat or two and be sure to stir the material frequently or you will end up with cloudy streaks.

[Rob Blaustein]

Thanks Howard, very helpful. That does look familiar, but it's always good to see it again. So when shopping for finishes, if one likes a satin sheen, then it sounds like one should plan on buying both gloss and satin, but only buy about 1/4 as much satin.

This may be a bit off topic, but is the sanding in between coats of wipe on poly done dry? I've seen references to wet sanding (using mineral spirits?)--when is that done?

[Howard Acheson]

>> is the sanding in between coats of wipe on poly done dry?

Rob, between coat sanding is not required when using a wipe-on varnish. The only sanding is after the first two coats and the objective is to flatten the surface. After that just apply a new coat as soon as the prior coat is dry to the touch. You only have to sand for adhesion if you can not recoat within 10-12 hours.

Sanding between coats is done with dry 320 paper. Wet sanding is something you might do as part of "finishing the finish".