Paragon Plane Research

[Ganthan Rhodes]

Hi, Rob ...

Thanks. Sounds like your OK with me publishing the links to the pics on your Web site, so here they are:

http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc3.jpg
http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc4.jpg
http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc5.jpg
http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc6.jpg
http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc7.jpg
http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc11.jpg
http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc21.jpg
http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc22.jpg
http://www.leevalley.com/home/temprl/cc23.jpg

Regards.

GR

[Ganthan Rhodes]

Thanks for the info, Rob.

A friend and I have had a long-standing difference of opinion about whether Lee Valley actually did any machining on the Paragons. You've ended that debate ... we'll have to move on to something else.

I will e-mail you as soon as I have my Paragon information available for you to review. I'd appreciate your feedback before I publish anything on the Web. I'll still likely have a few unanswered questions at that time.

I would really like to get hold of a photo of Serial #1 and 2 of each size if you ever wander by them with your digital camera.

Thanks again for your response.

Regards.

GR

[Jim Becker]

I will take this opportunity to mention that all of you that love these old tools really need to buy at least one of the Lee Valley calendars each year...preferably more for gifting as they profits also go to charity. The photos are just awesome. I keep the previous years' calendars on my book shelf just to retain the wonderful pictures.

[Alan DuBoff]

Granthan,

Yes, now that's much better pics of Rob's stash!<wink>

I like to see it as it reminds that if I ever start thinking "I got it bad", I think about Rob.

I mean that in a complimentary way!

One of the reasons I like to deal with LV is because of their customer service, which is really top notch, as is many of their products. It seems to be a rare case that most people need to deal with LV customer service, but when they do it's top notch.

I suspect the next thing on my list is that router plane, that's a sweetie pie!

[Ganthan Rhodes]

Alan ...

I'd feel like a kid in a candy store if I were turned loose in that warehouse.

I agree that LV has terrific products and services. That router looks mighty tempting, although I think my next purchase will likely be a Bevel-Up Jointer.

Regards.

GR

[Ian Gillis]

Hi

The Paragon No. 4 was my first premier brand plane. I already had a Footprint block plane (which I still use) and a disaster of a jack plane - one of those with the bottlecap type adjuster.

When LV opened their first shop in the Vancouver, BC area I hot tailed it down there and bought that #4 with its padauk handles and certificate of authenticity. It was clearly a Cadillac compared to my Brand X jack plane - no more than 1/4 turn of backlash on the depth adjuster - improved cap iron (which Rob recently confirmed they still have in stock). Very slick and nice.

I was a complete noob in those days, but I already had my first waterstones an set about putting a rounded secondary bevel on the iron. Then I put iron to wood for the initial test drive. I couldn't get the blade square to the sole, no matter where I put the lateral adjuster. I re-honed on my coarsest stone - still no joy.

Long story short, after many hours of frustration and being sure the fault was all mine, I brought the plane back to the store. The clerk practically tore my arm off getting the plane away from me. He only paused for an instant to show me how badly the plane rocked on his countertop. It looked to be "out of wind" about 1/8" over its length. It was replaced on the spot with a new unit which proved to be sufficiently flat.

Please don't take this as LV bashing because it just isn't. They stood behind the product 100% and seemed embarrassed to boot.This was their first foray into improving the quality of planes that were available in shops back in the 80's.

The problem was, IIRC, that Footprint just weren't up to the standards LV demanded of them. Paragon didn't have a very long run and I believe Leonard Lee made a statement about manufacturing problems when he announced the end of the program in a catalog.

I said to Rob Lee in a forum message that I thought that Paragon was the father of Veritas and that LV realised that if they wanted things done right, that they needed to do it themselves. He didn't respond to that point (he's a very discreet fellow) but I'm convinced that it's true.

I think that the Paragons that are still out there are vastly undervalued on eBay. There's not much brand recognition these days. But if you want a modern collectable or a solid precise user, try one out.

Wish I could find that authenticity certificate !!

Cheers
IG

[Rob Lee]

Hi Ian -

The basic problen we had with the Paragon planes at that time was really the inappropriate body material, and inconsistent stress relief. With cast iron - it can move significantly - overnight, after a week, or after a year. We checked and re-machined each one manually (pre-CNC days!!) ...

While it was at/near the top of the heap in it's day - tolerances and materials are far better now, from several suppliers.... and customers have far more measuring toools ....

Cheers -

Rob

PS - if you email me ( rlee@leevalley.com ) with the serial number of your plane, we may be able to provide a replacement certificate... I remember seeing a few blanks hanging about...

[Ian Gillis]

Hi Ian -

While it was at/near the top of the heap in it's day - tolerances and materials are far better now, from several suppliers.... and customers have far more measuring toools ....

And you still manage to smile .... I bet you secretly curse the first woodworker to take a micrometer/surface gauge to a handplane.

PS - if you email me ( rlee@leevalley.com ) with the serial number of your plane, we may be able to provide a replacement certificate... I remember seeing a few blanks hanging about...

Rob, I'd love to, but I can't find a serial # on my plane . I see a small lozenge shaped space in front of "Made in England" which has been milled flat, but no number. I took the plane apart (good excuse to apply a bit of oil) and the only digits appear to be in the casting of the frog and lever cap.

My misplaced certificate was from the plane I originally exchanged - it definitely had a ser # . I brought my certificate in to the store but I wasn't offered another certificate. I wasn't worried about it at the time and I'm not worried now

Cheers
IG

[Adam Bouchelle]

Hello guys,

[Adam Bouchelle]

Hello Guys,
I am newer to the creek and already feel great for having signed up. I recently bought a Paragon on ebay and was quite amazed at the quality of the plane over the standard planes. The one I purchased was well loved and had the bottom flattened to a polish, is really clean, looks all but brand new. I tried to look for some information on the plane and found it here. I originally bought the plane because it had a Hock Blade and chip breaker in it. I didn't know about the plane other than it was made in england. I was wondering how the research was coming.

Here are some pics of the number 4 I bought

$T2eC16NHJH8E9qSEU5yBBRln,uNFIw~~60_12.JPG$(KGrHqF,!rcFFzGWqQr1BRln,s8oWg~~60_12.JPG$(KGrHqZ,!rgFGNRSTG)dBRln,stwS!~~60_12.JPG$T2eC16d,!)QE9s3HF4leBRln,s(Gzw~~60_12.JPG$T2eC16h,!ykE9s7tye9FBRln,soz+g~~60_12.JPG$T2eC16J,!)cE9s4PsMCFBRln,ufggw~~60_12.JPG

[Sam Takeuchi]

Hello guys,

Hello. Did you mean to add something to the 6 year old post?

Edit: P.S. Oh you did add. I was wondering why you resurrected such an old thread. Welcome!

[Adam Bouchelle]

Yes I did add, I was hoping to find more info on it. I noticed that the thread was older but there are not many threads on a Paragon plane. This is also the one that pops first from an internet search.

[Bruce linthicum]

Hi

The Paragon No. 4 was my first premier brand plane. I already had a Footprint block plane (which I still use) and a disaster of a jack plane - one of those with the bottlecap type adjuster.

When LV opened their first shop in the Vancouver, BC area I hot tailed it down there and bought that #4 with its padauk handles and certificate of authenticity. It was clearly a Cadillac compared to my Brand X jack plane - no more than 1/4 turn of backlash on the depth adjuster - improved cap iron (which Rob recently confirmed they still have in stock). Very slick and nice.

I was a complete noob in those days, but I already had my first waterstones an set about putting a rounded secondary bevel on the iron. Then I put iron to wood for the initial test drive. I couldn't get the blade square to the sole, no matter where I put the lateral adjuster. I re-honed on my coarsest stone - still no joy.

Long story short, after many hours of frustration and being sure the fault was all mine, I brought the plane back to the store. The clerk practically tore my arm off getting the plane away from me. He only paused for an instant to show me how badly the plane rocked on his countertop. It looked to be "out of wind" about 1/8" over its length. It was replaced on the spot with a new unit which proved to be sufficiently flat.

Please don't take this as LV bashing because it just isn't. They stood behind the product 100% and seemed embarrassed to boot.This was their first foray into improving the quality of planes that were available in shops back in the 80's.

The problem was, IIRC, that Footprint just weren't up to the standards LV demanded of them. Paragon didn't have a very long run and I believe Leonard Lee made a statement about manufacturing problems when he announced the end of the program in a catalog.

I said to Rob Lee in a forum message that I thought that Paragon was the father of Veritas and that LV realised that if they wanted things done right, that they needed to do it themselves. He didn't respond to that point (he's a very discreet fellow) but I'm convinced that it's true.

I think that the Paragons that are still out there are vastly undervalued on eBay. There's not much brand recognition these days. But if you want a modern collectable or a solid precise user, try one out.

Wish I could find that authenticity certificate !!

Cheers
IG

Here are my two Paragons, modeling for Wikipedia, both with corrugated soles. I have upgraded both to Hock or other premium irons and breakers. I bought these sometime in the middle 80's through Garrett-Wade and was immediately impressed (for the extra fifteen bucks or so over the Record and English Stanley) with the build all around. The larger totes felt great to me and I've never had any complaint with either of them. I now have some beautiful L/N planes and I'm about to order a Veritas bevel up smoother as I've heard they do a wonderful job however, the Paragons have been my daily drivers for 30 years and I would be loathe to part with them ever. In fact, I quietly watch the auctions at eBay hoping to find a second pair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_p...lane_No._5.jpg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smooth...hing_Plane.jpg

[Mike Holbrook]

I have a GW Paragon #5 that I posted about long time ago. The #73 & C10 is stamped in the back of the lever cap, which if it isn't a manufacture date would conceivably be a few years before I bought it from Garret Wade. I moved to Atlanta in 1973 and bought it from there.

I believe I bought mine in the "dark ages" before the hand tool revival. I was not very pleased with it, preferring my old #7 Record jointer for most of the work I did at the time. The frog sits crooked to the mouth, easily visible, making it hard to adjust. Now that I have at least a little clue about restoring planes I may work the frog and plane body to get the frog sitting correctly. This particular model is odd in that the frog rests on 8 small rectangular surfaces on the plane body that protrude up from the body, several of them being rough/chipped... The bottom of the plane is at least as flat as necessary on a Jack plane. Now that I know it is a collectors item I may get motivated.