Another MM16 Quandary (not Electrical) - SOLVED !!

[Butch Spears]

Well my Lamborgini will be here next week for me to pick up in Austin a week from tomorrow. Butch

[Doug Shepard]

OK I guess I'm feeling pretty stooopid now and sorry if I caused anyone to question buying a MM16. I finally figured out what was wrong with my lower guide problem. I'm not missing any parts but they were definitely not installed in the correct arrangement. I had the parts in the same arrangement it came in when delivered and it never occured to me that it needed to be changed. From the infeed side of the table, the attaching scheme should be - Bolt, Small diam. washer, Slotted mounting bar, Large diam. washer, Spacer sleeve. Mine came delivered with both washers on the infeed side of the slotted mounting bar and I never thought to try rearranging it until this morning. I'm not sure why they'd pack it for shipping that way, but like the bolts for moving the brake pedal from it's shipping configuration there's no mention in the manual about needing to change it. I've looked at the manual since this issue came up, but the large diam. washer doesn't even appear in any of the pics and I can't seem to find it in any of the parts diagrams either. Otherwise I'd have probably figured this out long ago without posting this as a problem and stirring up a non-issue. The best pic in their online manual (http://www.minimax-usa.com/manuals/B...ALFINAL(1).pdf) is on page 11 and it doesn't show the washer behind the bar. The washer is quite a bit wider than the slotted mounting bar and would be real noticable. I just assumed they changed to a larger washer for the near side for some reason. I talked to MM yesterday afternoon and they suggested I just add another washer. That got me wondering a bit about the washer arrangement when I started looking at it again this morning. Anyway, the guides now move straight up and down (instead of drastically tilted), parallel with the saw frame, requiring very little (if any) guide re-setup between the extremes of travel.

[Dean Lapinel]

Thanks Doug,

Your topic was valuable for me. I decided to hold back a bit but then with the input of yours and other fine participants I became confident in the mm16 even if it had a flaw. This is even better news!

Now the race is on to see if Texas (Butch) beats out Idaho (me) in getting the new mm16.

Best-

Dean

[Butch Spears]

The Race is on ( Idaho Dean) or The ( Texas Butch ) But Dean I have an unfair Advantage, My mm16 is expected any day,it was held up by Port Authority to check the container. So by next Sat. I think mine will be in my shop, not set up ,but still here. I really hope you get yours tomorrow,you can set yours up and enjoy and I will be right behind you in a few Days. Enjoy and keep us posted. Butch

[Bob D.]

I too was on the fence concerning a MM16 purchase. With all the threads about switch problems and then this issue, I was beginning to think about the Laguna BS, but after reading all the owner's posts here that they wouldn't let these minor problems stop them from keeping or buying another, I think I will go ahead and place my order. Thanks all for the discussion, it was informative.

[Doug Shepard]

Bob/Butch/Dean
When you get your new saw, you'll probably find there's a allen bolt thru the brake pedal that needs to be removed, then the pedal lowered, then bolt re-installed. It's not mentioned anywhere in the setup instructions. I and a few others assumed we had brake mechanisms that were hung up and removed the lower wheel to get at the brake. Other than my prior bad electrical switch problem, every bug I've run into with the saw has had a simple answer IF you're working on it during MM customer service hours. MM's CS is great, but I think a lot fewer folks would need to rely on them if they just did a better job of providing thorough and up-to-date manuals. IMHO that's the only weak part of the package.

[Dick Latshaw]

if they just did a better job of providing thorough and up-to-date manuals. IMHO that's the only weak part of the package.

I with Doug 100% on this one. I'm on my way out to check the washers on my lower guide assembly.

[tod evans]

just look at the mm manuals a lessons in foreign (4) languages.

honestly though it would be a good idea for mm to put together english versions of their manuals directed at the hobbiest market since more hobbiest are getting into the professional grade of equipment. untill recently scm and centuro as companys did not target the "homeowner" market and took for granted that folks buying their machines allready knew how to tear one apart and put it back together. but given that mm is targeting the hobbiest as well as the small shops it would be wise to assemble a clear, detailed assembly manual. .02 tod

[Scott Welliver]

This is my first post at SMC... I received my MM16 on Friday 9/14 and wanted to add my experience to this thread.

I considered several saws in this class, eventually narrowing it down to the Laguna LT16HD and the Minimax MM16. It was a tough decision as each saw had some unique features that I liked better than the other. I finally went with the MM16, based on my perception of its slightly beefier build, the better guidepost, better dust collection, less "pushy" salespeople, and slightly lower price.

The saw is now setup, tuned, and I'm really happy with it. The cut with the included (cheap) blades is a bit rough, but that will be fixed when the Timberwolf blades arrive. I've already done some resawing and am amazed at the performance. It is a great saw.

But it did take some work to get here. I've experienced just about every problem already mentioned in this thread.

(1) No real damage during shipping (yay!), but there were some minor paint scuffs. When I mentioned that to Minimax, they said they would send me some touch-up paint.

(2) One of the black plastic plugs for the top of the saw was missing. Minimax said they would send a new one.

(3) Normal adjustments were needed. I suspect just about any large saw shipped cross country is going to need this. The 90 degree fence stop needed adjustment; the belt was a bit loose; and the guide post wasn't perfectly aligned. These were all easy adjustments.

(4) The fence wasn't 90 degrees to the table, and there isn't any way to adjust this. The bottom simply wasn't machined perpendicular to the face. Sam at Minimax said they would replace it, but I found it faster to spend an hour carefully filing and fitting until it sat flat and 90 degrees to the table. Then I added UHMW strips to the bottom so it would slide without scratching the table.

(5) The fence locking mechanism is just a screw that tightens against the fence rail. There are already some divits in the rail from my few days of setup and testing, and it will no doubt get worse over time. Not sure what the fix is for this. I may have to investigate replacement with Laguna's Driftmaster, if it will fit the MM16.

(6) The blade guides did not adjust freely. I first thought it was cosmoline, but when I took them apart I found a different problem. The outside of the guide is an aluminum barrel with internal threads. The guide bearing itself is mounted on a steel rod, which is threaded and has a knurled knob on the end. The threads on the steel rod were cut poorly -- the threads were rough, with chips and burrs. Again, MiniMax said they would replace them but I found it faster to spend 1-1/2 hours with a needle file and fine abrasive. I was able to clean up and smooth the threads, and the guides now adjust smoothly.

(7) I had the same problem others have reported with setting guides for a 1/4" blade. The forward position of the upper thrust bearing is limited by it hitting the blade guard. This essentially sets the maximum forward position for the "back" of a blade, and correlates roughly to the center of the tire. Try to track the back of a blade any further forward than the center of the tire, and the upper thrust bearing cannot reach it.

Meanwhile, the maximum rearward position of the lower Euro guides is also limited when the lower thrust bearing's locking knob hits the frame of the saw. This sets the rearmost position for the "gullet" of the blade, and correlates roughly to about 1/4" from the front of the tire. Try to track the gullet of a blade any further back on the tire, and the lower Euro guides cannot be moved back far enough to clear the teeth.

Now, if you've soaked all that in -- what this means is that there is exactly one place where you can track the blade, such that the back is just forward of the upper thrust bearing's most forward limit AND the gullet is just forward of the most rearward limit of the lower Euro guides. So it can be done, but it's really tricky because you have to get the tracking in just the right spot.

So using a dremel with a cutoff wheel, I cut out about 3/8" of the blade guard in front of the upper thrust bearing. This will allow tracking the 1/4" (or smaller) blade anywere on the front half of the tire, and still be able to reach the back of the blade with the upper thrust bearing.

(8) The mobility kit wheels interfere with opening the bottom door. The door hits the wheel at about 120 degrees open, yet you need to fully open the door to 180 degrees to get a 1" blade on/off. It's easy enough to screw down the leveling bolt a little to take weight off the wheel, then pull the spring clip and remove the wheel -- this probably takes about 30 seconds, after which the door can be opened fully. Nevertheless, it is a bit of a headache taking the wheel off and putting it back on. I don't really need to move the saw frequently, so I just took the wheels off and left them off. That's a good solution for me, but for someone who needs to move the saw each time it is used, this would be a pain.

All that said -- there is a lot more RIGHT with the saw than WRONG with it.

The table is perfectly flat, the throat plate opening is machined perfectly. Earlier complaints I read about the throat plate have been addressed with a new design. For electrical hookup, I was expecting the "pigtail" cord described in the manuals and in the Mini-Max videos, but was pleasantly surprised to find an electrical box mounted to the saw for connecting my cord.

It starts and runs smoother than a baby's backside. The wheel balance is perfect, and the motor is quiet and smooth. Tremendous power!

It was easy to level using the included leveling bolts. The guidepost and telescoping guard operate smoothly. The tension wheel is easy to use, and the tension spring looks like it could support a Mack truck.

The table is well balanced on the trunnions, and tilts easily and smoothly by hand. I had previously thought the LT16HD had an advantage here due to the rack/pinion table tilt, but a rack/pinion simply isn't needed with the MM16 table and trunnions.

The dust collection is excellent. I'd say something like 98% of the dust is carried away, with very slight amount following the blade into the lower cabinet and upper cabinet.

Fit and finish of doors, knobs, switches, and so forth is all first rate.

I am very happy with the saw now that it's tuned up. The major "design" issue I think MiniMax needs to address is the guide positioning. The upper thrust bearing should go further forward, and the lower guides should go further rearward.

Would I buy the saw again? Yes. Should the fence have been perpendicular, the guide threads smooth, and the saw able to use a 1/4" blade without trimming the blade guard? Absolutely. But on balance, the 2-3 hours I've spent fixing those things is a one-time expenditure, and I'll be using this saw for YEARS to come.

...Scott W

[Bruce Page]

Scott, great post and welcome to SMC.
I'm sure that the MM will give you many years of enjoyment.

Ps., I use a 1" Lennox Tri-Master on mine, it is a awesome blade.

[Howie French]

congrats ! it's a great saw.

regarding issues #7, did you try loosening the screw that attaches the lower blade guard to the guide assembly, then moving the blade guard forward. This should give you some more room.


Howie

[Scott Welliver]

regarding issues #7, did you try loosening the screw that attaches the lower blade guard to the guide assembly, then moving the blade guard forward. This should give you some more room. Howie

I did try that, and it helped some. But it also made the blade guard "bind" when raising it more than about half-way up. I decided the 15-20 minutes spent with the dremel was worthwhile!

[Scott Welliver]

Ps., I use a 1" Lennox Tri-Master on mine, it is a awesome blade.

I am looking to buy one of the carbide blades... I've seen a lot of discussion on the Tri-Master, the King Resaw, and (recently) the WoodMaster-CT. Still trying to decide. The price on the WoodMaster-CT is a lot less than the Tri-Master, so I'm leaning that direction right now. Anyone here used the WoodMaster-CT, and able to compare to the Tri-Master?

...Scott W

[Jim Becker]

The Woodmaster CT is a new offering, I believe...I will likely try it when my TriMaster eventually wears out...

[Bill Reed]

Scott,

You received your saw just a few days after I did. I had almost exactly the same experiences with my saw as you did, with one exception. There is no place that I can track a 1/4" blade and make it work. I have been working with the technical folks at Minimax, who recently ordered a 1/4" blade for their machine and discovered they have the same problem that you and I do. It is clear from this thread that this is a long-standing problem with this saw, and I'm surprised that Minimax was not aware of it. I guess everyone just fixes their saw by grinding off the blade guard, but I still don't know what to do about the lower guide. There is no way it will work in a lower position (like for a tilted table) with narrow blades running in the center of the wheels.

Thanks for your long and detailed post. I resonated with every word.

Bill