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Thread: rail and stile door question

  1. #1
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    rail and stile door question

    Just checking before buying some wood for rail and stile Shaker-style doors for a vanity. I thought I'd use solid walnut for rails and stiles and walnut veneered ply for the panels. Is 3/4" the typical thickness for the rails/stiles, and 1/4" for the ply panels (note: these are not raised panels)? So if I wanted to keep it relatively simple, I would center a 1/4" groove in the rails and stiles--is that right?

    Do people ever use 1/2" thick ply for the panels in non-raised panel doors? I guess that would mean that the inside face of the door is flush, so instead of grooves in the rails/stiles, the panel would essentially fit into a 1/2" rabbet. Is that done? I'm sure all this is discussed in my books at home, but I'm at work and may not stop off before buying some wood (typical last minute planning here).

  2. #2
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    "Typical" thickness is design dependent, but I think you'll find that most of the commercial and hobbyist build cabinets will have 3/4" thick rails and stiles. 1/4" veneer ply for the flat panels is just fine. Simple groove and tongue construction is the table-saw equivalent of a cope and stick joint cut by a router table or shaper and will work fine. Location of the groove is design/preference dependent. You can center it or move it forward/back, depending on how much reveal you want between the rails/stiles and the panel.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    I would center a 1/4" groove in the rails and stiles-
    That will work fine. I do that all the time. Of course, the plywood is not exacly 1/4".
    Chris

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Blaustein
    Just checking before buying some wood for rail and stile Shaker-style doors for a vanity. I thought I'd use solid walnut for rails and stiles and walnut veneered ply for the panels. Is 3/4" the typical thickness for the rails/stiles, and 1/4" for the ply panels (note: these are not raised panels)? So if I wanted to keep it relatively simple, I would center a 1/4" groove in the rails and stiles--is that right?
    Not centered, A little lower that centered. You will need to run some test pieces to get it set to the proper depth. The thickness is really determined by the size of the doors, but all mine have been 3/4in. The panels need to fit into a 1/4" groove on my rail and stile set.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Blaustein
    Do people ever use 1/2" thick ply for the panels in non-raised panel doors? I guess that would mean that the inside face of the door is flush, so instead of grooves in the rails/stiles, the panel would essentially fit into a 1/2" rabbet. Is that done? I'm sure all this is discussed in my books at home, but I'm at work and may not stop off before buying some wood (typical last minute planning here).
    Somebody else can answer this.

    Make sure that you have a sled to cut the ends of the stiles. You cannot hold them and make a safe cut.

    Barry

  5. #5
    Rob,

    3/4" for the frame is common. the panels vary. 1/4" is probably the most used but it will likely be around 7/32" actual thickness. If you choose to use 1/2" ply I recommend that you make a 1/4" groove in the frame and rabbet the edge of the ply to make a 1/4" tongue for the groove. The panel could then be recessed in the front and flush in the back. Also, we make an adjustable tongue and groove bit set (99-036) that was designed for Shaker doors.
    Charles M
    Freud America, Inc.

  6. #6
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    Ready for 1 more option?

    What I usually do for a shaker look panel is I use a 1/2" solid wood panel and run it through the panel cutter. It does not cut to it's full depth because the panel is not 5/8 or 3/4" thick. Then I assemble the door with the panel in backwards. Flat on front and small profile on back. You could rabbit the panel as well as use a panel raising bit. The problem I have with a 1/4" plywood panel is that the doors seem like they don't have any weight to them and they seem a little cheezy(IMHO). Also since 1/4" plywood is not 1/4" then you have to get a special plywood thickness cutter for the middle cut on your profile you will have to put something in the void between the wood and the 1/4" panel.

    I hope that helps.

  7. #7
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    I always thought that "real" traditional shaker doors were really raised panels. It's just that they put the raised panel facing the back side of the door. This gives the door strength and weight.

    Frankly I don't like cabinet doors with 1/4" ply rattling around in the frame. This is just my opinion. Obviously you can and should build whatever you like, or the budget allows. Like Charles suggested, 1/2" may be a good compromise.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles McCracken
    Rob,

    If you choose to use 1/2" ply I recommend that you make a 1/4" groove in the frame and rabbet the edge of the ply to make a 1/4" tongue for the groove. The panel could then be recessed in the front and flush in the back.
    Thanks for the guick replies. Charles--Are you saying--referring to my picture (a cross section through the panel viewed from above)--to use the method shown on the bottom, rather than on top? Or something different. In the lower option, would you worry about wood movement of the rail revealing the a bigger gap compared to what you'd see with the top method?
    rail-stile.jpg

  9. #9
    Rob,

    Here's what I meant:

    Charles M
    Freud America, Inc.

  10. #10
    I have made a bunch of doors using 1/4 inch plywood centered in a 3/4 stock. It works fine, but the door is lacking in heft. It seems a little weak, which can be a bigger deal if making large doors.

    I would try to make the doors using 1/2 and then rabbet it in, like Bill and Charles suggested.

  11. #11
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    If you have resaw capability I would use the 1/2in panels flipped backward. I recently built the doors below using that method. I did it to add weight and substance to the doors.

    Currently I am planning a kitchen for the in-(out)laws and it will most likely use 1/4" mdf core oak plywood for a similiar door style. They are tossed up between a cove raised panel or a flat panel currently.

    The current American Woodworker has a good article on doing panel doors with only a 1/8" slot cutter bit. I preferred the slight chamfer on mine so I bought a set of stile and rail cutters with a 20 degree bevel.

    One big advantage of the 1/4 plywood is no wood movement so it can be fully glued in adding strength to the door.

    Joe
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charles McCracken
    Rob,

    Here's what I meant:

    Ah, yes--I misread your post. You did say a groove in the rail. Thanks for clarifying. I tend to agree with those who've said that 1/4" might be a bit thin. The door won't be particulary big (18" wide x 28" high) but the added heft might make it feel more substantial. I'll try making a version using some extra plywood I have around.

    Now I see what Bill means by putting in a raised panel backwards. I guess it jazzes up the inside a bit compared to the above pic.

    When making a door like this, using a mix of ply (panels) and solid wood (rails and stiles) do you glue the panel in, or do you need to worry about wood movement in the rails/stiles and let it float using those spaceballs things I've seen mentioned?

  13. #13
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    Joe, I hadn't seen your post when I posted. Beautiful job on those doors. So your panels are solid wood then? I hadn't really planned to do that, but I guess I could, though I've never resawn anything so that part might be a challenge.

  14. #14
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    Another option is to glue together 2 1/4" ply panels back to back. that way you have the 2 "good" sides. And since they really aren't 1/4" anyway the thickness is something like .420 or so. The trick is to find enough heavy stuff to set on top of the panel while the glue drys. You can then cut a centered groove the exact thickness of the glued up panel in the rail & stile. The added thickness adds weight and the 1/8 to 3/16 inset on the rail & stile looks real nice as well. I have done this on some mission style doors with good success.

    Larry
    Larry J Browning
    There are 10 kinds of people in this world; Those who understand binary and those who don't.

  15. #15
    John Russell Guest
    I'm also interested in the issue of gluing a 1/2 inch panel (rabbet and slot as suggested by Charles) onto the rails and stiles. It seems as if there would be wood movement issues to deal with. Is there another method to attach the panel?

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