Black walnut logs...fair price?

[Brett Baldwin]

Inspired by Stu, I'm looking at an opportunity to buy some black walnut logs that will be freshly cut. The person that owns the trees was going to just cut them down and burn them to make room for a house expansion. (This is second-hand info BTW as I don't personally know anybody involved in this.)

The main question is what is a reasonable price for them? The trees look to be about 2' at the base and 30'+ tall and the plan seems to be to cut them into 10' sections.

Any further advice, opinions, suggestions, etc. are welcome as I have no experience with this but I do have room in the backyard and the patience to make good use of this opportunity. Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.

Brett

[Dick Parr]

I'm not sure what a fair price would be if you were buying it outright, but if the person was just going to burn them down, I would think hauling them away would be a fair price. Saves him the gasoline and the clean up afterwords. If he really just wants to burn something then offer to leave him the Branch's.

[Chris Padilla]

Dick's got it nailed! You gotta butter 'em up real good about spending your blood and sweat just hauling the sucker out of there for them!

Do you plan to mill the logs on site or haul the whole log elsewhere for slab up?

[lou sansone]

there are national buyers guides for stump prices on all domestic hardwoods. I don't get the publication, but someone here probably does. the price is going to depend on the grade of log.

without knowing the grade a reasonable price would be 75 cents per bd foot.. you probably have 500 bd feet in the tree

lou

[Ian Abraham]

Remember the published prices are usually for a full logging truck load delivered to the mill....

A single log laying in someones yard has pretty much zero commercial value as the trucking would cost more than the log is worth, if you could find a mill that would want a log from a house site. (good chance of embedded metal)

If you have to make a token payment to get the log it's only firewood value really. Sure it's gonna be worth more, once you haul it away, saw it, dry it and grade it. But sitting on his back lawn... pay him enough so he can buy a load of firewood to replace it, or cut up the tops for him and clean up the mess.

Cheers

Ian

[lou sansone]

Remember the published prices are usually for a full logging truck load delivered to the mill....

A single log laying in someones yard has pretty much zero commercial value as the trucking would cost more than the log is worth, if you could find a mill that would want a log from a house site. (good chance of embedded metal)

If you have to make a token payment to get the log it's only firewood value really. Sure it's gonna be worth more, once you haul it away, saw it, dry it and grade it. But sitting on his back lawn... pay him enough so he can buy a load of firewood to replace it, or cut up the tops for him and clean up the mess.

Cheers

Ian

ian
I believe that stumpage prices are normally quoted on the landing and not delivered

any loggers out there ?
lou

[Stu Ablett in Tokyo Japan]

If you have all the equipment, the space etc to do this, then the time, and the space to set it for 2 years to dry it, then it would be worth it to you to get the wood for free and do it.

If you have to start from scratch, buy a mill, etc etc..... well.....

You could get the logs for free, and take them to your place and have them milled?

You really have to work on the "Sure I'll take the wood off your hands to do YOU a favor" angle, because to be honest, you ARE doing him a favor.

Like everyone else has said, the commercial value is not much, if anything.

Take the useful wood, cut up and get rid of the mess, the homeowner should be happy.

If you still feel like you are short changing the guy, in two years time when the wood is dry, make him something from some of the wood, and give it to him.

Cheers!

[Joseph N. Myers]

Brett,

I have to go along with what Stu said. In my case however, I find it better for me to have the portable mill guy to go to the site and cut the wood there. Saves me the trouble and expense of paying someone with a truck/crane to haul it to another site. My truck is pretty big so hauling it is not too much of a problem.

The board footage and quality of the wood has to be considered. Steve Wall Lumber quotes 40% 2C, 40% 1C and 20% Select for log run. BF varies based on the scale you use but for Doyle Log Rule, 24" x 10' is 250 bf. But you want to measure the average diameter of the small end of the log. And also inside the bark. Say the bark is 1-1/2" so that would be 3" and then 24" down to 21". 21" x 10' is only 181 bf. Say the small end is only 20", then 17" because of bark and the bf is down to 106".

You might want to order a "Log Rule & Lumber Scale" from Wood-Mizer, 1-317-271-1542, I'm guessing maybe $6.00 (and/or print something out from the web). While you are at it, you can ask for Wood-Mizer owners in your area that do cutting, call them and get an estimate on prices and amount/hour. Around here, north of Phila, around $50/hr, you pay for travel and between 400 and 600 bf/hr, IIRC. BTW, the sawyer can probably give you some advice on whether it is worth doing what you are doing "in your area" and maybe even have some walnut he can sell you.

I've done it before and might do it again (tree cutting guy cutting down cherry trees in the area). Walnut around here is not such a big deal so unless it would be one of those really big, beautiful old tree, wouldn't bother. (Just sold some 2,000 bf between $2 and $3 of really old stuff and can find similar deals in the area if I look hard enough).

Regards, Joe

[Scott Banbury]

I think I've seen pics of the tree your talking about--it's in Tempe, right?

I get all of the wood I use in my shop from "yard" trees that I process on a Woodmizer. Of course, this works out good for me since I live in Memphis, TN where hardwoods grow bigger and faster than most anywhere else in the country

I don't pay for logs, though I often charge to build the tree's owner something to remember it by.

If you haul off the trunk(s) of the tree, you are doing the homeowner a big favor for which they should at least be giving you a six pack--drink this AFTER you get done rolling a bunch of heavy logs over your tows

[Brett Baldwin]

Thanks for all the replys guys. As you might imagine, local hardwood here in Phoenix is somewhat scarce. The prices for even 4/4 pine are just under $2 and anything like walnut/cherry/etc. start in the $4 range and go up. Yes Scott, those trees you saw were the ones although they aren't actually here in the valley, they are in the mountains to the east. The transporting of the logs wouldn't be the hard part though I'm sure it would be a good bit of work. Getting them slabbed would be the challenge. My initial thought was to get the logs back here and then take my time finding a sawyer to do the work. All in all, maybe this whole project isn't feasible and that's why I wanted the great opinions one can always find here. I'm going to feel it out a bit more and see whether this is just a nice little daydream I'm having or not. Thanks again for the input and if it works out, I'll be sure to post pictures.

[Ian Abraham]

ian
I believe that stumpage prices are normally quoted on the landing and not delivered

I guess that depends who's buying them. The value of logs on the landing will often depend on how far they have to be trucked. So although logs may be bought by the mill from a landing, the price they offer will depend on how far they have to haul them. The price delivered to the mill is more consistant, but still variable

Brett

See if you can find a sawyer first, and deliver the logs directly to his site. It will be cheaper than paying to move his mill (for only a couple of logs)and you dont want to be loading / unloading logs any more than you have to. Sawn boards, even green ones are much easier to handle than logs

Cheers

Ian

[Joe Chritz]

.24 per board foot for sawing if I deliver it. That is with a bandsaw mill but I don't know what kind as I haven't taken up the offer yet.

I have three sawmills within 20 miles but most don't take customer lumber here.

I bet there is a double trailer of hardwood logs goes by my place everyday. Talk about drooling. Wonder what the penalties are for truck Hijacking nowadays.

If I had a decent tree cheap I would skid it onto a car hauler and take it in for sawing today. After .25 per BF for drying plus cutting, driving and labor its still a good deal on a large order of premium wood.

If you can find someone with a mill by all means go for it.

Joe