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Thread: Small joinery saws

  1. #1

    Small joinery saws

    I recentely got a pair of Wenzloff & Sons small joinery saws, or what most would call small joinery saws. Here's a pic of them:



    I worked with Mike over quite a period to come up with this design, and some might consider them to be too small, as they're only 8" long and 1 3/4" deep (of usable blade). This is the type of saw I decided I wanted to use for cutting joinery in 4/4 to 6/4 sized stock, and they feel and cut wonderfuly. Made out of a very rare curless curly jatoba wood! (this grin is for Mike...) The wood really feels nice though, I like them a lot.

    I've been playing with them for a few days, and they really cut well, which should be expected from a new saw, but they really track nicely. I certainly don't consider myself to be any type of great sawyer, so please take my comments with any large grain of salt, or even hit the next thread link at the bottom of the post.

    Here's a set of houndstooth tails, hickory which is going into purple heart, but I ran into a problem having a difficult time marking the pins, after I hand planed the purple heart it was like polished glass...Later I though I might have had luck wetting the end grain, but not sure that would work. I'm adding an apron to a dimensional workbench in my garage, which will have one of these on each side of the front. This wood is HARD, harder than purple heart most certainly. Funny is that it actually chisels better than pine to me. I fine softwoods the most difficult to chisel.



    If you look closely you can see the marks, the saw tracked fairly well along the line, certainly a nice attribute for a hand saw.

    The other thing that I found out over the past few days is that I rather like using a crosscut saw to cut across the grain (end pins or other cross grain cut). So far I had been using rip filed dovetail saws for that, and in comparing the 2 saws side by side, I would have to say the rip teeth are the wrong teeth for that task, although it does work and I have done this myself. Given the choice, I would take the proper saw for the task. Having both is nice.

    Here's a small pine box I made, which will store my small measuring tools, bevels, marking gauge, etc...I still need to rabett the top/bottom, and glue those in place. These are the smallest pins I've ever cut, I'm a tad surprised they hold, but this is actually pretty strong, IMO. Could be do to the wider end pins, I'm not sure. Anyway, the widest part of the pin was too narrow to use a 1/8" chisel, so I needed to modify it after I had it laid out...;-) Pine is really difficult to chisel and requires sharp chisels, and even then seems to tear/smash easily. This is about 12" long and 3 1/2" high and 3 1/4" deep, and made out of 1/2" clear pine (some scraps I had from moulding).



    Even on the pine, cutting across the grain to cut the pins off works better and seems like the proper tool for the job, rather than using a rip files dovetail saw for those tasks.

    I also cut another small box out of rosewood, fairly small, very pretty grain. I left it in the garage, but it's not put together yet.
    --
    Life is about what your doing today, not what you did yesterday! Seize the day before it sneaks up and seizes you!

    Alan - http://www.traditionaltoolworks.com:8080/roller/aland/

  2. Well first, [blush] thank you, Alan.

    Really, the post is great! Love seeing the work. I think the pin sizing and spacing is really quite nice on that box.

    Pine is actually more difficult than one would expect. Very sharp chisels once they dull in the slightest begin to crush/push the fibers.

    btw, I love the pic composition on the score. Pretty cool.

    Take care, Mike

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
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    991
    Those are definitely some handsome saws there. Are they a crosscut/rip pair or both crosscut? I really like that houndstooth dovetail. I hope you'll be posting the finished project so we can see it in place.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    Those are real beauties!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Brett Baldwin
    Those are definitely some handsome saws there. Are they a crosscut/rip pair or both crosscut? I really like that houndstooth dovetail. I hope you'll be posting the finished project so we can see it in place.
    I like the work Alan did as well. If I am correct, are these your first houndstooth DT, Alan? Even if not, they are very good.

    The saws are 16 ppi, one rip, one crosscut, 8" blade length.

    Take care, Mike

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Wenzloff
    If I am correct, are these your first houndstooth DT, Alan?
    Yes, this was my first houndstooth, and this is kinda what happened...(and why it's not complete;-).

    The pins for this were in a piece of purple heart flooring that I planed the finish and grooves off of (they were pre-finished). I laminated 4 pieces of t&g, 2 thicknesses thick, and 2 high (looks like a 4 piece lamination from the end).

    Then I used a No 8 to plane the end grain, just barely taking a sliver off of it. The result was a finish that was like polished glass. Even though purple heart is not as hard as the hickory, it seemed this laminated piece could be...so, none of my marking knives which I have would:

    1) fit in between the tails to mark the pins, or be long enough
    2) skate on the surface, and not be able to make a mark (space is very small)

    There was not enough space to leverage an awl, and the marking blades I had got from Johnny Kelso wouldn't fit, nor would a utility knife mark them easily as it was too short.

    This gave me some time to ponder, which brought me to the conclusion that since the utility knife I had wasn't really long enough, maybe there was a knife that would. So, a trip to the hardware store rendered a Stanley 10-049 pocket knife for about $7:

    http://www.stanleytools.com/default....Rotating+Blade

    That has a blade this is about 1 1/2" - 1 3/4" long, very narrow, but much stronger than a utility knife is (which is a razer for the most part, and what I use often). This is actually a great marking knife that will fit where most fancy marking gauges wouldn't fit.

    This did work and get the pins marked, but I only cut them with the saw and didn't clean them up with the chisel yet and it was my son's birthday and I needed to go to dinner with the family. However, just a point on the houndstooth, and that is that those are the saw cut lines as they came off the saw, although the waste was cut out first with a fret saw, and the widest portion cleaned up with a small 1/8" chisel. What you see along the sides of the pins were cut with the rip saw.

    Question I have is, would wetting the end grain allow the marking knives to get a clean mark on the hard surface? I haven't tried that out, but just thought that might work last night.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Baldwin
    Those are definitely some handsome saws there. Are they a crosscut/rip pair or both crosscut? I really like that houndstooth dovetail. I hope you'll be posting the finished project so we can see it in place.
    Yes, those are a pair, one rip and one crosscut. As I tried to point out, I'm not a believer in the school that a fine rip filed saw is the proper tool to cut across the grain. That operation is best suited with a crosscut saw with teeth filed so it cuts rather than tears the fibers. I find this true on 3 different types of woods in my brief comparison.

    I will post pics after I have time to get the pins finished, and the plan was to use 2 of these, one on each end, of a front apron for a dimensional bench in my garage, which I'm also adding a vise to (I shamefully admit I do not have a proper vise right now and did this with clamps holding the work to the bench). Once I get that vise mounted with the apron up, I'll be building a real workbench, but I kinda need a vise to build the workbench I have been planning.

    I have another small rosewood box I cut the joints for as well, but I didn't put it together.

    Thanks all for the compliments, but Mike is the one who made the saws, he's the one who deserves credit.

    I forgot to add that I did also cut the head to make a puzzle mallet. The head is walnut and the handle will be made out of hickory.
    Last edited by Alan DuBoff; 03-21-2006 at 2:51 PM.
    --
    Life is about what your doing today, not what you did yesterday! Seize the day before it sneaks up and seizes you!

    Alan - http://www.traditionaltoolworks.com:8080/roller/aland/

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