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Thread: Tablesaw Advice Request: Laguna vs. Minimax vs. Hammer

  1. #1

    Red face Tablesaw Advice Request: Laguna vs. Minimax vs. Hammer

    Hello Everyone,

    I am a new member of the "creek", and I was hoping to get the advice and opinion of you experienced woodworkers/ power tool users.

    I am in the process of setting up a shop, and have been researching tablesaws for a few months now. I am inclined toward the Laguna TSS, as it has a nice mix of features between an "American" style and European style saw. I especially like the dado scoring. However, I have also considered the more European style saws from Hammer (K3), and Minimax (SC3W). The lack of dado capacity on some European saws would be a deal breaker for me, though, and I am not aware of dado scoring on these (less important, but would be nice). Even considered the new European-style table saw just introduced by Grizzly (the G0460 model: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0460).

    I have been reading posts on Sawmill Creek and other forums, and have been reading the reviews, etc. The Laguna TSS has gotten some favorable (although few) reviews lately, but...........

    It would appear that Laguna has had some significant problems for some customers in providing good service after the sale, which makes me uneasy (? problems with the corporate culture at the company, vs. random and sporadic problems). In addition, there has been some feedback that there can be fit and finish problems with some machines (? a result of foreign manufacturing quality control).

    Anyway, would appreciate any and all constructive feedback/thoughts from members (both positive and negative), regarding your experiences with the TSS or the other listed saws, as well as your experiences with the after-sale service of Minimax vs. Hammer vs. Laguna.

    Thanks in advance for your time and interest!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,675
    Welcome to the 'Creek!!

    My experience with Mini Max is very, very positive. And I suggest you speak with them as in most cases you can order the machine compatible with a dado set if that is your preference. Some machines, it's available as a standard option; others require special order. Configuring the sliding saw for dado compatiblity makes a small compromise, however...the edge of a "regular" blade is not right up to the slider as it is in the traditional non-dado Euro format.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker
    Welcome to the 'Creek!!

    My experience with Mini Max is very, very positive. And I suggest you speak with them as in most cases you can order the machine compatible with a dado set if that is your preference. Some machines, it's available as a standard option; others require special order. Configuring the sliding saw for dado compatiblity makes a small compromise, however...the edge of a "regular" blade is not right up to the slider as it is in the traditional non-dado Euro format.
    Thanks for the feedback, Jim.

    Anyone found a way to use dado scoring on a Minimax SC3W?

    Is there any way to modify the sliding table to mount American-style, miter-slot jigs (such as a tenoning jig, etc.)?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sterling CT
    Posts
    2,473
    Hi ben
    welcome to the creek
    if you search on the creek you will find several threads that cover all of your questions. Take your time and ask lots of questions as you are doing. visit shops and see the machines in person.

    Why is the dado a "deal breaker" for you?

    best wishes

    lou

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Brentwood & Altamont, TN
    Posts
    2,334
    Hi Ben,

    I have a X31 and an LT16HD, both from Laguna and the folks there treated me well.

  6. #6
    welcome ben! another in the minimax camp here... lou offers very sound advice! what ever way you go you`re talking about a chunk of change so spend time reading and driving the machines you`re looking at before you commit......02 tod
    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN; I ACCEPT FULL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY POSTS ON THIS FORUM, ALL POSTS ARE MADE IN GOOD FAITH CONTAINING FACTUAL INFORMATION AS I KNOW IT.

  7. #7
    I started a thread a lot like yours.
    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=33413

    One bit of advice: Some folks will tell you that the stuff they bought is the best thing since sliced smoked salmon and that the other companies are making junk. Often they will convey the notion of "junk" with tone and timbre more so than saying it outright. Soooo: Consider that there is really such a thing as "buyer's loyalty." It's a mental game most of us play on ourselves that helps us feel good about our choices.

    Any piece of equipment is going to have failings.
    Best thing for you (I think) is to do exactly what folks here are suggesting. Go look and feel touch and run the machinery, and research.
    It is your $5,000.00 that you won't have after you purchase.

    Felder/ Hammer will let you come to theor shop and run the equipment. I am sure MM will also though I haven't asked as I ain't going to California any time soon.
    Attend the large shows if you can - and be a pain in the butt.
    Get everyone's literature and READ THE FINE PRINT.
    Structure a deal by negotiating hard. Everyone likes to say that they are helpless to negotiate 'cause the aliens won't let 'em. I hate the helpless negotiator ploy. There is always something they can do: toss in shipping, give you all the accessories for free - something - there is always something.

  8. #8
    Welcome to the creek.

    I have the largest MiniMax combo machine, with both dado and scoring (and absolutely love it).

    The scoring is used practically daily - a great way to avoid tear out when cross-cutting plywood. The small second saw blade rotating in the opposite direction enters the bottom of the cut, just as the main blade enters the top of the cut. It is a major time saver, and is part of what allows me to make sheet-good carcases with a degree of both speed and precision that I never achieved on my table saw.

    The dado capability of my machine was used once, and know that it works well. However, even the best sheet goods have a degree of warp, bow, flex, etc. that interfere with the precision of the dado, since part of the sheet may not be in contact with the table/slider. That warp prevents me from getting the same degree of precision in the dados that I have in the rest of the carcase. I find I get far greater precision from a router that follows the surface of the sheet goods. When I glue up, pushing the panel to the bottom of the dado removes the warp. I thought the dado capability would be important, but I don't use it, and don't expect to use it in the future.

    I bought the combo so I could work alone - I retired early to pursue my woodworking passion professionally. I didn't expect the substantial improvement in safety, precision, and speed that I got with my MiniMax. I often laughed at woodworkers who talked in thousandths of an inch, but now that I achieve that routinely, I have never had to adjust the length of table legs, (almost) never had to pull a cabinet diagonally to get it square (the one time I remember doing it, I could just see the light at one end of a square put in the case). I learned that if you can feel the difference in height of joined wood, that difference may be as little as .001 inch. I get these results from MiniMax, and would expect the same from Felder, Knapp, Altendorf. and other high end machines. I have less confidence that you would get similar results from the cheaper Rojek, Hammer, Robland, etc., since I hear "happy" users spending far more time than I do maintaining the alignment.

    Good luck in your decision.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Austin Texas
    Posts
    1,957

    MiniMax Service

    The MM guys in Austin have been very helpful for what little I've had to deal with them. I notice on the MM owners forum some of the guys talking about seminars or instructional sessions taking place periodically in Austin for the various combo machines. I also agree with earlier posters saying that it is your cash, you need to be comfortable with what you buy and the other post about "owners loyalty". I imagine all machines each have their tiny "pros and cons" identified by each of us according to personal likes/dislikes. A combo machine is abig investment, I'd sure try and "rub" one somewhere before buying. Best of luck.
    David

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Notan
    Is there any way to modify the sliding table to mount American-style, miter-slot jigs (such as a tenoning jig, etc.)?
    Take a piece of MDF. Get some extra T Nuts from MiniMax. Mount the MDF to the sliding table carrige. Take the miter slot runner off your tenoning jig and mount it to the MDF.

    Or, nix the silly tenoning jig and use the shaper to make tenons.

  11. #11
    Hi Ben,

    I have a Laguna TSS and I like it. You can read my more detailed comments in this thread:

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=30636

    If you have any questions about the TSS, I'd be happy to answer them.

    Dan

  12. #12

    router on slider

    I will be setting up my old SCMI slider this spring/summer. Even though it looks like it could accommodate a dado, I plan to fashion a router table just past the end of the table. This will be more capable that a dado blade anyway. I think using the sliding table with a router would be pretty cool.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,675
    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Notan
    Is there any way to modify the sliding table to mount American-style, miter-slot jigs (such as a tenoning jig, etc.)?
    Most certainly possible to do things like this...just think about it a little. Something like a tenon jig, first mounted on a plywood or aluminum base could be attached in the tee-slot of the slider like you would with any other "factory" accessory. I've seen Jointek sleds mounted on sliders, too.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Skillman, NJ
    Posts
    933
    Some good advice here.... I will add my own based upon my own experiences and knowledge. Laguna, I will never buy from them no matter what they sell, I have dealt with them before...to slimy and I have heard of enough stories to keep me away. Hammer, I have seen, sorry to say they are not made all that well, they meet a price point and that is it and the company it comes from....well I have problems with. That leaves me with MiniMax where all my money has gone. Am I loyal? yes I am but it is for a reason....a very good one. Good luck with your search. The European sliders offer so much in safety, ease of use and accuracy that it is astonishing.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Brentwood & Altamont, TN
    Posts
    2,334
    OK, so I am posting this in defense of the Laguna folks and more specifically the Robland machines. I have heard enough of the people that say that "they have heard about poor service" from Laguna and they have "heard" about this or that. Where is the evidence? When I made the decission to buy a combo machine I posted to SMC looking for advice and I got plenty of Laguna bashing. But, I got zero evidence of anyone having firsthand experience with Laguna providing poor service or that the equipment was sub par. I am seeing more of it in this thread. So, if you have the experience to back up you claims, lay it out and I am not talking about what happened to a friend of a friend 20 years ago. I have never said a single bad word about MM so, why is it that some folks seem to think it's fair play to bash a company without firsthand knowledge of the product or the service? I have an X31 that works great and does everything I expected it to do for many thousands less than the closest competitor. My bandsaw came perfect from the vendor so, I didn't have to find out how good their service was. Let's be adults and deal with OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE and not inuendo...

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