Wiring Question

[Darren Vass]

Not sure where to post this. I'm trying to redo the wiring in my basement workshop and wish to add an outlet to or before what is presently a light bulb fixture. I attach a crude diagram of the wires going into the fixture. Basically there is a 12-3 cable with a white, red, black and ground into the junction and a cable to the switch and one to the next outlet, and one to the bathroom lights. I've looked at my wiring book and can not find how to convert this into an outlet into which I can plug stuff. The two wires, one white and the other black into the center of the diagram is what is connected to the light bulb fixture presently with no ground wire to it. The colorless wires are white.

Thanks,

DarrenLighting wiring.JPG

[Art Mulder]

Darren,

(I'm not an electrician, and living in Ontario, I am under a different code than you. That said...)

I think you must have made a mistake in that drawing, as the wiring to the switch/light just does not look right.

If there already is an outlet coming out of the box, then I would think that you can just wire up another outlet to those same wires.

[Ken Deckelman]

According to your picture, and other standard wiring practices, the BLACK and WHITE from the 12-3 (marked as "POWER" in picture) should be HOT all the time, you can pigtail your outlet to those connections. The RED wire is switched on and off.

[Rob Will]

Darren,
It looks like you need to add a set of short leads where the power comes in to the first wire nuts. This lead would power your nearby receptacle.

A different approach would be to cut the power wire before it gets to this box and install a receptacle in the line (if you can get to it)

Remember that often times lighting is on 14 ga wire / 15 amp circuit breaker. By the time you subtract the lighting load, you won't have much of an outlet (capacity).

Be safe

Rob

[Kent Fitzgerald]

Darren, two questions for you:

1. The way you've drawn the circuit, it appears that the existing light fixture at this box is not controlled by the switch... right?

2. Are you planning to install a receptacle in this box instead of the light, or to run cable to a new box location?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Darren........I'm not an electrician or a building inspector .....but I would not recommend wiring an outlet into the light circuit unless you intend to put another light into that outlet. If some thing plugged into that outlet was to draw too much current, you could find yourself looking for the breaker in the dark. Besides.......in most places it wouldn't meet code.....

[Barry O'Mahony]

As Kent says, the way you've drawn it, the switch controls the "Next Light", and not the local light fixture (does the local one have a built-in switch?). The switch also would control power to the red conductor: does it run back to another light?

[Darren Vass]

There is one switch in the room that controls this and another light bulb. This light bulb extends via 14-2 cable into a terminal outlet into which is plugged a fluorescent light.

I am planning on converting this light outlet into a recepacle, so that I can plug in a pair of fluorescent lights. I would like to do the same to the other light bulb. Is this possible? I have not looked at the wiring in the other light bulb yet.

LIting 2.JPG

[Kent Fitzgerald]

There is one switch in the room that controls this and another light bulb. This light bulb extends via 14-2 cable into a terminal outlet into which is plugged a fluorescent light.

Darren, something doesn't add up. The way you've drawn it in the first diagram, the light fixture in this box and the "next light" can't both be controlled by the same switch.

I'm also concerned about the apparent mix of 14 ga and 12 ga wire on the same circuit. While this could be permissible, as long as the circuit is protected by a 15A breaker, it suggests that some "creative" wiring may have been done in the past.

At this point, the scenario has become sufficiently "iffy" that I would recommend a professional evaluation.

[Barry O'Mahony]

At this point, the scenario has become sufficiently "iffy" that I would recommend a professional evaluation.

I agree, this looks like things have been "hacked up" a bit.

[Randy Meijer]

I'm not a professional electrician either but I am good at puzzles and that is what we have here. In spite of your drawings, Darren, I think every one has given good answers; but none of them have fully answered the question. First off, let me say that I agree with those who suggest your written description and your wiring diagram don't seem to agree. Specifically, the light that is in the junction box IS NOT controlled by the switch if your wiring diagram is accurate. Your wiring diagram shows that the bathroom light and the red conductor in the power cable are controlled by the switch. You did not indicate that the bathroom light was controlled by the switch and since it doesn't make sense that it would be wired that way, I am assuming the wiring diagram is wrong in that particular aspect. The "SECOND LIGHT" that you say is controlled by the switch does not show up in your wiring diagram at all. We can speculate that the red conductor feeds the second light; but we don't know for sure??

OK, having said the above, it really doesn't make any difference. The simple answer is that all you have to do is remove the light fixtures and replace them with three prong receptacles. Hook up the white wire on the light to the silver screw on the receptacle and the black or hot wire on the light to the brass screw. Be sure to pick up a ground wire and you will be set!! You may need to find some sort of adapter plate or box to allow the receptacle to fit the junction box; but a trip to Home Depot will provide you with a simple solution to that problem or you could just install a new box if you prefer.

The only thing we cannot resolve is the question of whether the receptacle at the junction box will be switch controlled or not. According to your wiring diagram it would not.

OK. that's the way I see it. I hope someone else will review my solution and make sure I didn't miss something!!

And let me add this final thought. The previous suggestion to get someone with some good electrical experience to look at your setup first hand is an excellent one!! Situations like this are hard to diagnose from a distance. It is always possible that the writer has missed or misunderstood something about his electrical system and it is possible that we readers are not correctly understanding the information that the writer is trying to convey. If you are dealing with the construction of water ballons, the consequences of a misunderstanding are of little concern. If we mess up in dealing with an electrical problem, someone's hair could get curled. However you decide to proceed, do be careful and follow all standard safety precautions.

Good luck!!

[Darren Vass]

I will get someone to come in and look at my wiring.

I would ask one last favor.

I made a mistake in the diagram. It's all 14 gauge, except that the power source cable is 14-3.

Can someone please explain the extra red wire in 14-3 and what you do with it. This is part of my cofusion. My books show how to hook up a receptacle with 14-2 but not with 14-3.

And I'll get an electrician to do the wiring, so that I'll have a house in which to play with all my tools.

Thanks guys.

[Joe Chritz]

Can someone please explain the extra red wire in 14-3 and what you do with it. This is part of my cofusion. My books show how to hook up a receptacle with 14-2 but not with 14-3.

In short its for switches controlled from multiple locations. Three and four ways. It is also used for smoke alarms and 220V circuits where 110 is need as well. Neither of those seem to fit your bill.

Are one of the lights controlled in two locations?

Joe

[Kent Fitzgerald]

I made a mistake in the diagram. It's all 14 gauge, except that the power source cable is 14-3.

Can someone please explain the extra red wire in 14-3 and what you do with it. This is part of my cofusion. My books show how to hook up a receptacle with 14-2 but not with 14-3.

And I'll get an electrician to do the wiring, so that I'll have a house in which to play with all my tools.

OK, if the wire sizes match, that's good news. But hiring an electrician is still a good choice.

As for the black and red wires in this circuit, one is the switched hot and the other is constant hot. If your diagram is correct, the red is the constant hot. For the purposes of adding a receptacle, you would use only one of these hots, depending on whether you want the receptacle switched or always live.

[Randy Meijer]

In short its for switches controlled from multiple locations. Three and four ways. It is also used for smoke alarms and 220V circuits where 110 is needed as well. Neither of those seem to fit your bill?

Lights/receptacles.