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Thread: Blank Page Issue Is Intolerable - Let's Talk

  1. #91
    [quote=Al Willits
    Yes, I see that, but which one of them names work for a check?
    Does absolutely no good to send a check to someone who can't cash it, and that's what I'm hoping to avoid
    Two names are possible, SCWF or Northwind, will either work or??
    Al[/quote]

    Opps...sorry......
    Glenn Clabo
    Michigan

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,675
    Quote Originally Posted by Hank Keller
    ...and has a 20GB transfer.
    SMC would blow that away in just a few days...this is one of the primary reasons it's not on a hosting site. The cost would be huge for the amount of traffic the site generates.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    North Central Texas - DFW
    Posts
    114
    Donation sent. Thanks for everthing you do to keep the creek flowing.
    Mike

    "The only real valuable thing is intuition." - <CITE>Albert Einstein</CITE>

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    London, Ont., Canada
    Posts
    2,200
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker
    SMC would blow that away in just a few days...this is one of the primary reasons it's not on a hosting site. The cost would be huge for the amount of traffic the site generates.
    I'm lost - doesn't every ISP contract either have limits on bandwidth, or charge for it? So, why is the bandwidth cheaper/unregulated where it is currently located?

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    North Hempstead, TX
    Posts
    379

    Talking Paypal Donation Sent

    Got to page two of this thread.... and then went to Paypal and sent in a donation.

    Another idea about advertisers:
    How about giving them their own "page" that a member would have to physically click on to enter, but it could have the companies ads, specials or discounts.

    Just like the Manufactures Forums where each vendor could have a page of ads and a link to their website. Make the pages non-interactive, for viewing only.

    How many times have we heard of a vendor who has a discount going on for, lets say for Fathers Day, or some holiday sale. I wouldn't mind going in and viewing who is having what specials and so on, I just don't want pop-ups and scrolling banners. With 8,000 members and only 5% viewing their ads in a month, that's still 400 people and if only 10% purchased from them still comes out to 40 sales in a month. It may be worth looking into. Especially when you can actually show how many members and visitors come to The Creek on a daily basis.

    Just throwing some thoughts and suggestions out there

    Just want to say a big Thanks to Keith, Jackie, Aaron and anyone else in the background for the site, upkeep and hard work each and everyone of you do to keep this site up and running in addition to all your other day-to-day duties that keep you busy.
    Regards Ted Jay
    Last edited by Ted Jay; 06-24-2006 at 3:05 PM.
    "And remember, this fix is only temporary, unless it works." - Red Green

    THIS THREAD IS USELESS WITHOUT PICTURES


  6. #96

    Talking

    Money sent via Paypal......It is time we the SMC community pool our resources and help these guys out. I am willing to bet a Krispy creme dougnut that each and every one of us has wasted more wood that would surprass the $6 donation they need

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    184
    Check will be on its way Monday,

    Brian

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Winston-Salem, NC
    Posts
    319
    I've been coming to this site for a couple of years now. It's time I pony up a few bucks. I just sent something via paypal.

    Ernie
    Ernie Hobbs
    Winston-Salem, NC

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,675
    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mulder
    I'm lost - doesn't every ISP contract either have limits on bandwidth, or charge for it? So, why is the bandwidth cheaper/unregulated where it is currently located?
    It depends on the contractual stipulations, Art. "Consumer" connections...especially cable modem...are closely monitored for upload consumption--they don't want you running servers. Business connections are expected to have servers and are not usually capped. Also, the original idea I was addressing was for a hosting service...that's where you rent space and bandwidth on someone else's server farm to "host" your site. The high bandwidth/transfer rate that SMC demands (this is a very, very busy site...just look at the statistics that Keith posts monthly in the Support Forum) would be very, very expensive in a hosted environment. We are also at the point that we need to start using more than one server to maintain efficiency in serving content...one to run the forum software and one to run the database where the posts and attachments are stored. Again, in a hosted environment, this growing demand would be very expensive. Many, many hundreds of dollars per month.

    My personal sites are hosted with a provider. They allow (currently) 30gb per month of transfer. One 6 minute extremely compressed video (our Christmas video of the girls) blew that away in February after I posted it...so my $4.95 monthly cost was exceeded that month by...about $30.

    So keeping SMC on "our own servers" on a business grade connection is likely the most cost effective solution. Hopefully, Verizon's FIOS will "get available" in Keith's location soon as that is a direct fiber to the prem Internet connection at considerably higher bandwidth than is typically available for low cost. A business account with 5mb up and 5mb down costs about a hundred bucks...that's the bandwidth equivalent of 3 T1 connections which typically cost about $400-1000 a month...

    But if it looks like the fiber solution isn't going to be available "in time", Keith may need to add a second business cable modem connection with the service available currently. The upside is more bandwidth. The downside is that it requires another annual contract, meaning it could delay a move to fiber later.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 06-24-2006 at 4:46 PM.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #100
    I will happily chip in whatever is needed - BUT - I have a concern that the way this is constituted is causing a basic problem for Keith et al which it shouldn't.

    I understood the close connection between SMC and HRO because of the nature of HRO's business. It was the sponsor so the fact that the two fell under the same entity made some sense. However it clearly caused Keith grief in the longer term which should be avoided if it can be. I see no reason why it should be necessary for Keith and Jackie to accumulate debt while we all reap the benefits.

    Why is SMC not a seperate entity? I know that i am in a different jurisdiction and operate under different laws but could a corporation not be formed to "own" SMC on behalf of its members. If its a case of buying shares I for one am in. In the UK I could start a limited liability company same day and it would then be responsible not me. Can anybody explain why this is not a viable option?

    I am also unconvinced on the location of the hosting. I can get a root server with unlimited bandwidth for about £130 ($250 ish) a month. I have no idea what the spec that is running this server at the moment is but the price above is for 3+ gig processor, 2Gb memory and a 400Gb (2*200Gb) raid array. I suspect that this spec would need to be pushed but it must be worth investigating this option further before renewing or increasing any contracts for existing service. Machines like this are in big, serious, well connected data centres with very high reliability. And surely they would make Keith's and Aaron's and Jackie's life less complicated. Heck there is enough talent on here to organise some kind of rota to share the duties isn't there?

    Again. None of the above is criticism. It is just that we have applied sticking plaster to these problems before and now we discover that more is needed. I just feel that we should make sure we understand the problems and address them rather than understanding the symptoms and compensating for them.

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    London, Ont., Canada
    Posts
    2,200
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker
    It depends on the contractual stipulations, Art. ...
    The high bandwidth/transfer rate that SMC demands (this is a very, very busy site...just look at the statistics that Keith posts monthly in the Support Forum) would be very, very expensive in a hosted environment. We are also at the point that we need to start using more than one server to maintain efficiency in serving content...
    Jim,
    thanks for the clarification. I went digging on the support forum and found the stats for March 2006. If I read that right, SMC served 83Gb of bandwidth, just over 2.5Gb per day.

    Yeah, that would cost. Sounds like you need a fair bit of RAID storage as well?

    Keith, FWIW, I have 15+ years of Unix Sysadmin experience, mostly Solaris and Linux. If you ever get stuck, feel free to ask for a hand.

    best,
    ...art

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Leesville, SC
    Posts
    2,378
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry James
    Keith,

    For the non-contributers, duh .

    Larry
    The Non-contributer may have problems that you haven't thought about.
    I've had heart attacks, heart problems, by-pass surgery and haven't worked since Feb. 2005, and have zero income, duh.
    Army Veteran 1968 - 1970
    I Support the Second Amendment of the US Constitution

  13. #103
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    When I ran Hampton Roads Online I had some experience with server farms and other very large hosting companies. Several of the high traffic web sites that we hosted would try to move to server farms to save money which more often than not didn't work out. Because their web sites had such a huge amount of traffic their new host either couldn't get their web sites working or they hooked them and then raised their rates because of their data transfer.

    One of my customers would leave twice each year, we left all of his data on our server knowing that he would be back in less than two weeks. The bottom line is that most web hosts profit from sites that use minimal resources and will lose money on any site that has a high traffic rate. When their bandwidth is plentifull all is well but when their network load starts to strain and they need to purchase additional bandwidth they find it more cost effective to dump their high traffic customers.

    Undoubtedly there are exceptions to the rule but generally speaking you get what you pay for in this world. Moving a web site like SMC isn't a small task either and using a remote host means less access to their server and major compromises when you need to configure your software. Owning our own server has a few drawbacks but it does make it easier to administer and perform maintenance on the machine. While we don't have the revenue that the big guns have we do a few advantages over the long haul.

    The problems our bandwidth provider has been experiencing over the last few weeks are troublesome and aggravating but they will be resolved and things will get back to normal. The cost of our bandwidth is not a major concern, we receive a fair service for the price we pay. For years I purchased a T-1 pipe connected directly to a nationwide backbone with a guaranteed CIR. The T-1 was very expensive but absolutely reliable throughout the ten years we contracted the service. Our current cable company connection does not have a Cetified Information Rate, we get what we get basically but the price is affordable and the performance since November 2005 has been very reliable.

    The issue that I am concerned with right now isn't our bandwidth bills or the cost of building a new server. My feelings are that we need to start paying our System Administrator for the time he spends keeping our hardware and software up to speed. Because this job requires a certain amount of dedication and there is responsibility that goes with the job that places a burden on him or her to keep everything running, financial compensation is only fair.

    Currently Aaron is a volunteer, if he goes on vacation or is unavailable for some reason and the SMC server goes down I don't feel it is fair to interfere with his personal time and nag him to get our server back online. Even a part-time paid Administrator would not be expected to leave his day job to work on his part time job. If we provide a monthly fee for his services we would be able to expect a certain amount of his time be dedicated to maintaining The Creek and it would reduce the load on my shoulders considerably.

    With over 8,000 Members the cost of a part time paid Administrator shouldn't be a major burden. If just 25% of our Members would doante 50 cents per month we could remain financially healthy and pay our Administrator fairly for his services. The remainder of our Moderators and Admins will continue to volunteer our time without benefit of compensation.

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    Here is another option to consider;

    We could immediately remove Guest access, this would drop our server load by over 60% with no noticable effects to SMC. Guests don't contribute financially or participate in our Forums but they constantly consume over 60% of our resources. I expect that removing Guest access would cause our Membership to spike for a few days but for the number of Guests who join will not make a serious impact. I also expect that the bandwidth and server capacity we have right now would be more than adequate for several years.

    Our ability to attract new Members would diminish considerably. If Guests can't view our Forums they would undoubtably be less likely to join. Note that just turning off Guests ability to view pictures won't provide the biggest savings as database access is still the largest load on our server.

    Aaron and I have debated this issue many times and my opinion is that Guests are valuable if you want to attract advertising revenue.

    Note that removing Guest access to SMC would improve performance but it will not resolve the issue of compensating our Administrator.

  15. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Outten
    Here is another option to consider;

    Our ability to attract new Members would diminish considerably. If Guests can't view our Forums they would undoubtably be less likely to join. Note that just turning off Guests ability to view pictures won't provide the biggest savings as database access is still the largest load on our server.
    i think attracting "new blood" is really the only way to have smc continue to grow and be healthy.
    Aaron and I have debated this issue many times and my opinion is that Guests are valuable if you want to attract advertising revenue.
    whoa nelly! since when are we looking to attract advertising revenue? it`s my understanding the whole reason each of us has been asked to chip in is to avoid advertising? please explain what you mean by this statement keith...do you intend to seek advertisers or sponsors other than the members? tod
    Last edited by tod evans; 06-25-2006 at 8:28 AM.
    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN; I ACCEPT FULL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY POSTS ON THIS FORUM, ALL POSTS ARE MADE IN GOOD FAITH CONTAINING FACTUAL INFORMATION AS I KNOW IT.

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