Who makes these stupid rules anyway

[Tom Sweeney]

I was turning a - well a something - tonight. The end result will probably be a candle holder. I had glued up 3 different woods & had it looking pretty good. but as I was turning I couldn't commit to doing what I wanted to. I wanted to make the base almost as big in diameter as the top. The problem is a little voice in my head (Yeah I have those) kept telling me the base is supposed to be 1/3 the size of the widest part - in this case the top of the piece. Since I had doubts as to what I should do - I ended up screwing up the base. I'm at a disadvantage cause at this point all I have is a 4" faceplate - so I find it easiest to turn the whole thing with the faceplate screwed to the foot. This means I need to leave enough space to cut off the foot.

So my questions are these:
Who makes these stupid rules & where do I email them to complain - or at least get a list of the rules.

For a candle holder or a confetti lamp or anything that is not actually a bowl do the same rules apply? It seems to me that you need the base of a candle holder, this would be for a large diameter candle, to be fairly substantial to keep it stable.

[Todd Burch]

Call me stupid Tom, but couldn't a guy screw a block of, say, wood, to the 4" faceplate, let's pretend maybe just under the size of your maximum swing, and then turn it round and flat on the front, and then use THAT for your bigger faceplate?

I'm not a turner.
I'm not a turner.
I'm not a turner.
I'm not a turner.
I'm not a turner.

[Dave Smith]

Hi Tom,

I am pretty much self taught in turning as far as form goes. My rule is if I like it then it is OK. Don't worry about formulas for proportions just turn what you want and if it doesn't look too good burn it.

I have to admit that I took a two day class from Bill Grumbine a few years ago. And I was fortunate to watch Larry Handcock turn a couple of years ago. Last year Wally Dickerman visited my humble shop for a day of turning. So I am not completely self taught when it comes to turning but I still refuse to worry about proportions.

The hardest thing to learn is when to pitch a bowl into the fire. When I first started turning I tried to save every piece. Now I can toss a piece into the burn pile in a heart beat. Besides there are limits to how many candle stick a person can use.

Happy turning.

Dave Smith

Past my bed time in Longview, WA.

[Jim Becker]

Call me stupid Tom, but couldn't a guy screw a block of, say, wood, to the 4" faceplate, let's pretend maybe just under the size of your maximum swing, and then turn it round and flat on the front, and then use THAT for your bigger faceplate?

I'm not a turner.
I'm not a turner.
I'm not a turner.
I'm not a turner.
I'm not a turner.

Yea, right. You're not a turner. But you have an innate ability to know the right answer to the problem...so it's time to buy a lathe, big guy, and kiss the family goodbye!!

Seriously, a glue block is absolutely the best way to handle this situation if your blank isn't long enough to waste a bunch of it undercutting the foot. However, all of the heavy cutting should be completed "up above" before paring down the bottom for final parting. This insures there is enough material to support the rest of the turning during the...well...turning. I've often used this method for small vessels, turning them start to finish, including hollowing without reversing. If one really wants to do something special on the foot other than a simple undercut, after parting the vessel off, you can reshape the glue block to be a jamb chuck that supports the piece while you reverse it. Careful attention (and a good caliper) will let you get a nice snap-fit for hollow vessels and weed pots that will require minimal (or no) assistance from the tailstock to keep the piece on the lathe for those final light cuts on the bottom of the workpiece.

Marlen Kemmet from WOOD Magazine taught me this method a couple of years ago...he turnes a lot of small southwestern style vessels and this is the most efficent way to do it. It also doesn't require a chuck for those on seriously small budgets and the glue block serves as an inexpensive way to help with other activities, as stated above. This includes working with small turned boxes and their tops.

[Eric Apple - Central IN]

The problem is a little voice in my head (Yeah I have those) kept telling me the base is supposed to be 1/3 the size of the widest part - in this case the top of the piece.

Well that is not always pratical ratio, it's more important that a candle holder doesn't fall over and burn your place down. So form must follow function, and many interesting pieces greatly stretch/violate expected dimensions. Even interesting shapes in nature - toad stools, mushrooms look nice with out following any such guide line.

A good salid bowl will have thick sides and enough weight not to scoot around the table or tip when used. Form following function, and not artfull guidelines. Now, if the piece is art and only to look at - just about anything can go. After all, the function is to look pretty.

[Tom Sweeney]

I guess my point / question is more of a philosophical one- being the deep guy that I am

I have used the glue block in the past - but on this piece I had already rough turned it when I thought I needed to add some cherry to the rim.
When I rough turned it I left enough of a foot to cut off (I thought)- but while finish turning it, after gluing up the cherry & changing the look of it, I couldn't commit to a style for the bottom - so I ended up screwing it up. I really like how the top 3/4 of this piece looks so I think I'll glue up another peice of cherry on the bottom & do what I originally wanted to - see I can't let it go.

Dave hit on a few points I have trouble with - such as when to pitch a piece into the waste pile. I have a real hard time doing that - after all the stuff does grow on trees The other is - If I like it it's OK. I like art (well a lot of it anyway) but I don't know "good art" I just know what I like. I think it's probably important to visualize how you want the finished peice to look - though the wood has some say in that - & committ to it. If it breaks a few rules & looks good it's a keeper - if it looks bad it's firewood.

I do have one real question on this - what do you all suggest for a parting tool to make good clean undercuts on the foot (I don't want to tell you what I'm currently using)?

As a side note I will soon be taking a 1 day class with Bill Grumbine so I think things will be a lot better after that. Bill, I promise to figure out my schedule this week so we can get it scheduled.

[Eric Apple - Central IN]

I do have one real question on this - what do you all suggest for a parting tool to make good clean undercuts on the foot (I don't want to tell you what I'm currently using)?

The skew chisel can make a very clean parting cut. You might need to hog out a bunch with a parting tool leaving a bit extra on the base side of the part. Then dress the base edge with a truing cut running the skew in like a spear. To part with a skew, just make a really big V cut all the way thru with one side of the V straight. Of course - one mistake and the skew runs up the side of your work in a nice deeply gouged spiral.

Well never mind about the skew for more then a slightly undercut base, which was your question. I typed it in and don't want to just waste it with the cancel button. That will work for a flat base. I undercut with gouges, scrapers with a chuck mount.