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Thread: How to use a DC

  1. #1
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    How to use a DC

    Do you leave your DC on all the time or does every one have remote switches or hard wired switches throughout the shop? I have a small shop and will run one machine at a time and I'm thinking of a Gorilla for the TS, jointer, planer, MS, BS, router table and maybe a flex outlet at the DP/mortiser (6" PVC w/short 4" runs-longest run maybe 35'). I don't know how to run a DC since I've never had one. Do you have to leave a couple of openings open all the time to keep the motor from overheating? If so how many and how big. Can the motor overheat if too many outlets are left open? Any big no-no's?

    I plan on using long sweep elbows and plan on putting the Dc in another room to keep the noise down. There is a lot of info on DC equipment but little on operation. Thanks in advance for the help.

  2. #2
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    DC Stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Grunow
    Do you leave your DC on all the time or does every one have remote switches or hard wired switches throughout the shop? I have a small shop and will run one machine at a time and I'm thinking of a Gorilla for the TS, jointer, planer, MS, BS, router table and maybe a flex outlet at the DP/mortiser (6" PVC w/short 4" runs-longest run maybe 35'). I don't know how to run a DC since I've never had one. Do you have to leave a couple of openings open all the time to keep the motor from overheating? If so how many and how big. Can the motor overheat if too many outlets are left open? Any big no-no's?

    I plan on using long sweep elbows and plan on putting the Dc in another room to keep the noise down. There is a lot of info on DC equipment but little on operation. Thanks in advance for the help.
    Ben,
    I try to open only the gate for the tool that I am using at the time. The DC does not have to be running constantly. In fact, that is a waste of energy when no tool is running. I use the "Lone Ranger" remote to shut it on and off as required.

    Technically, a DC impeller is not a "constant displacement" pump so you can run the DC with NO gates open without worrying about overheating your motor. On the other hand, I like to have one open at all times but, remember, I have the remote which shuts down the DC when not in use. The motor will NOT overheat if you have all of the gates open at one time but your flow at any given machine machine will be pretty dismal.

    Any no-nos? Use as little flex hose as you can! That stuff REALLY eats up your efficiency because of the wall friction! Hope this helps.

    Dale T.
    I am so busy REMAKING my projects that I don't have time to make them the FIRST time!

  3. #3
    Ben,

    What Dale said. Very good advice.

    I would suggest that you run 6" right to the tools if at all possible. Limit the use of 4" to as little as possible. I have nearly all 6" in my shop and it makes an incredible difference vs 4", especially if you have a good cylone powering the system. The Long Ranger or similar is nearly a must for any DC system. I've got mine wired through a contactor box and I would be totally lost without it. I often leave 2 gates open and the DC running if I'm going back and forth between machines but still use the remote as well.

    Good luck with your new system!!!

    Terry
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
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    I run mine continuously as I move from machine to machine during "major milling" periods and operate it as needed at other times. I do try to not cycle it "frequently" most of the time. With all gates closed it's also pretty quiet since the cyclone is in a separate, sound-treated closet, so leaving it on for short periods between operations doesn't bother me, either.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker
    I run mine continuously as I move from machine to machine during "major milling" periods and operate it as needed at other times. I do try to not cycle it "frequently" most of the time. With all gates closed it's also pretty quiet since the cyclone is in a separate, sound-treated closet, so leaving it on for short periods between operations doesn't bother me, either.


    Jim, wasn't it you that had a thread that showed the building of your DC closet/room sometime ago? IIRC it was very well thought out and very well done. That might be something that some would find helpful and like to see again/for the first time.


    Just a thought.
    Mark Rios

    Anything worth taking seriously is worth making fun of.

    "All roads lead to a terrestrial planet finder telescope"

    We arrive at this moment...by the unswerving punctuality...of chance.

  6. #6
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    Unlike most woodshop machines, a cyclone's motor operates at full power all the time. (In contrast, your table saw only consumes its full 3 hp when it under full load, like ripping 3"-thick oak real fast.) A 2 horsepower cyclone like a Gorilla will consume about 2500 watts any time it is running. That is a lot of money if you leave it running all the time. Mine runs only when there's sawdust being generated by some other machine.

  7. #7
    Ben,

    I use the Long Ranger Remote to control my DC. I also have built automatic blast gates that open when the machine they are for turns on. (such as the planer)
    blast_gate2.jpg


    Motors on dust collectors work the hardest when they are moving the most amount of air. So if you leave blast gates open that you don't need, not only are you reducing the available airflow at the location you are working, you are also making the motor work harder. (this can be verified by an ampmeter) You never want to exceed the rated amperage of you motor!

    I would recommend that if you are doing milling operations where you are wanting the DC available, with just a short time between the operations, that you just shut the gates and leave the DC on. Most motors have a hourly start/stop cycle rating, and this is the hardest working motor in your shop.

    The reason you hear of folks leaving one gate open all the time is due to their ductwork not being strong enough. For a DC when all the gates are closed that is when it pulls the highest amount of static pressure. (but also does the least amount of work) So if you use metal, you need at least 26 GA pipe to withstand the suction. 30GA will just collapse.
    Last edited by Todd Crow; 07-12-2006 at 7:10 PM.
    Todd Crow
    Northern MN

  8. #8
    todd, cool web site! welcome to smc...tod
    TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN; I ACCEPT FULL LEGAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY POSTS ON THIS FORUM, ALL POSTS ARE MADE IN GOOD FAITH CONTAINING FACTUAL INFORMATION AS I KNOW IT.

  9. #9
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    I have a 3 phase dust collector and used to walk over to throw a knife switch when I wanted to use it. I put together a combo 3 phase contactor and a remote control unit and love it. I only turn it on when I am using a tool. But like jim, I often have major milling operations going since I only use rough sawn air dried wood. For that stage of construction, I keep it on until the 55 gal drum is full, which is about 20 minutes or less.

  10. #10
    Multi-horsepower motors, especially single phase, don't like to be turned on and off. Someone suggested a rule of thumb to try to limit it to 3-4 times per hour. Therefore I leave my dust collector on between steps, but not all the time. I have also learned to use my larger machines with fewer stops and starts between cuts or other operations.

  11. #11
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    You sure a blower runs under more amps when the intake is blocked?
    Seems with less air to move it would draw less amps

    Al

  12. #12
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    Al, check out Bill Pintz site. He ran amp test on blowers that showed the max amps when the unit was not connected to the piping (about 20 amps) and dropped to something like 16 amps when all the piping was connected.
    Good, Fast, Cheap--Pick two.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Willits
    You sure a blower runs under more amps when the intake is blocked?
    Seems with less air to move it would draw less amps

    Al
    Quote Originally Posted by Cecil Arnold
    Al, check out Bill Pintz site. He ran amp test on blowers that showed the max amps when the unit was not connected to the piping (about 20 amps) and dropped to something like 16 amps when all the piping was connected.
    With no ducting at all, the blower is wide open and moves the maximum amount of air, highest current. Add duct work, even wide open, and the airflow is constrained, less flow, less current. Close the gates, nominally no airflow, and you have minimum current. (With no load, the motor speeds up - try blocking a shop vacuum hose)

  14. #14
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    I seriously recommend a remote and here's why. . . I got a remote power switch BEFORE I had a DC. Used it on my shop vac. I found that I used the vac (and now my DC) more often and more effectivly if I didn't have to set down what I was doing and cross the room to turn the DC on because I didn't realize I was going to be "ready" to make a cut.

    There was always just that one quick cut or planer pass where I didn't feel like walking over to hit the switch. Lame, I know but, a reality.

    Woodcraft has them on sale now and again for about $35 - $45 depending on whether it is 110 or 220v your after. Normal price is around $55 to $70. My dad just picked one up today at ToolMart (don't know if you have them nearby) for his 220v for $37, good to 3HP! The remote has made my shop time so much more enjoyable I would not hesitate to get the best (read plan ahead) one I could.

    P.s. My woodcraft device will operate the DC from my kitchen at the other end of the house from the shop. Not very useful but I guess I'm trying to say distance has not been a problem.
    Last edited by glenn bradley; 07-13-2006 at 12:42 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Amps??

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie Plesums
    With no ducting at all, the blower is wide open and moves the maximum amount of air, highest current. Add duct work, even wide open, and the airflow is constrained, less flow, less current. Close the gates, nominally no airflow, and you have minimum current. (With no load, the motor speeds up - try blocking a shop vacuum hose)
    Hi Charlie,
    I'm not real bright but I would have to agree with Al and disagree with Cecil and Bill Pintz. When a motor of any kind is under a no-load condition, it is doing minimum work and should draw minimum amps. When ducting is added, the amperage should increase because more resistance is being added. As more gates are closed, the amperage should increase because the motor is working harder. When all gates are closed, this should cause the maximum current draw. However, since a DC impreller is not a constant displacement pump, prolonged operation with all gates closed should not be a big problem. A DC impeller is like a window fan. It is made to provide FLOW, not pressure. Therefore, excess air will simply pass back through the impeller if there is a blockage in the piping.

    A shop vac is totally different in that it IS a constant displacement pump (although not very efficient). It is designed to provide PRESSURE as opposed to FLOW. A water pump is a constant dispacement pump and will explode if some sort of pressure relief is not provided due to piping blockage. Your shop vac is similar in that the motor will not last very long if you block the intake. ANY electric motor will only draw as many amps as it needs to do the work required.

    Well - that's MY side of the story. Tell me where I'm wrong!

    Dale T.
    I am so busy REMAKING my projects that I don't have time to make them the FIRST time!

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