Titebond Polyurethane exposed!

[Gene Collison]

I edge glued three pairs of 4" X 4" squares of imported 3/4" oak ply using Titebond Polyurethane, Titebond Original Wood Glue and Titebond 2. I placed each pair in a vise after a 24 hour cure. I hit each one with the heel of my hand in an attempt to break the joint. The poly glue joint broke down the middle with a firm rap, quite easily. The Original wood glue was significantly stronger but breakable. Very little tearout of the 11 ply plywood on either glue. I was not able to break the Titebond 2 joint no matter how hard I tried. The Titebond 2 is clearly superior to the other two glues. I tried the Poly glue again and same thing, easily broken right down the middle with little if any tearout. Snapped just like a carrot. I'm not sure if Gorilla glue would be any stronger, does anyone know? Titebond Poly glue is dissapointing at best.

Gene

[Robert Waddell]

I've not had very good results with this polyurethane glue either. In one case I glued and clamped up my work, let it cure, then took the clamps off to have it fall apart as if it was never glued. I use Titebond II for just about everything with great results. Just my humble experences.

[Lee Schierer]

I've had good success using Excel poly glue. I find that if you don't wet the pieces before glue up that you get a stronger bond and far less foaming. There is enough moisture even in kiln dried lumber to asctivate the glue.

[Jason Roehl]

I made a softball bat out of hickory---laminated 3 pieces with Gorilla glue and left it clamped overnight (I think I used every clamp I owned that would fit). After about a dozen games, it's batting around .800, with absolutely no signs of de-lamination. One thing I did NOT do was use the pre-wet method, as it was summer. I have a sneaking suspicion that pre-wetting causes excessive foaming that may open the joint slightly, or cause "holes" in the bonding surface. There was still quite a bit of foam-out at the joints, though.

[Gene Collison]

I made a softball bat out of hickory---laminated 3 pieces with Gorilla glue and left it clamped overnight (I think I used every clamp I owned that would fit). After about a dozen games, it's batting around .800, with absolutely no signs of de-lamination. One thing I did NOT do was use the pre-wet method, as it was summer. I have a sneaking suspicion that pre-wetting causes excessive foaming that may open the joint slightly, or cause "holes" in the bonding surface. There was still quite a bit of foam-out at the joints, though.

Hi Jason,

I'm inclined also to believe that water doesn't make any difference if you have reasonable humidity. I will probably use Titebond 2 exclusively in the future, that product is really strong. Another thing I have heard over the years is that "the glue is stronger than the wood", not so in all cases! Another thing I really like about Titebond 2 is that it dries flexible which gives it a little elongation instead of being brittle.

Gene

[David Rose]

Gene, I am surprised about the Titebond Original. I think Franklin claims superior strength for it over TBII. I don't have the chart in front of me, so I am not positive.

The flexibility can work for you or against you depending on circumstances. Glue creep can be a pain when it occurs. And I am convinced that my router table (is it OK to say that over here? ) sagged partly due to that movement. Other times it is great.

David

Hi Jason,

I'm inclined also to believe that water doesn't make any difference if you have reasonable humidity. I will probably use Titebond 2 exclusively in the future, that product is really strong. Another thing I have heard over the years is that "the glue is stronger than the wood", not so in all cases! Another thing I really like about Titebond 2 is that it dries flexible which gives it a little elongation instead of being brittle.

Gene

[Gene Collison]

[QUOTE=David Rose]Gene, I am surprised about the Titebond Original. I think Franklin claims superior strength for it over TBII. I don't have the chart in front of me, so I am not positive.

The flexibility can work for you or against you depending on circumstances. Glue creep can be a pain when it occurs. And I am convinced that my router table (is it OK to say that over here? ) sagged partly due to that movement. Other times it is great.

David,

That's interesting about Franklin's claim that TB II is not as strong as the Original. When I glued the TB II sample, I thought I should make up another sample because I felt that I did not apply enough glue as well as the fact that I used a little too much clamping pressure. But it turned out it was way stronger. Try the test yourself and let me know. I'd also be interested in the same test with Gorilla glue if someone would do that.

Gene

[David Rose]

Gene, I checked the sheets. I was wrong. Franklin says that II is about 10% stronger. It sounds like your test showed a lot more than that.

I hate the lack of body language in text. Though mine isn't great anyway. I wasn't at all trying to sound like I doubted what you found. I was just puzzled.

As soon as I get some projects done that I am lagging on, I might give it a try. Until then, I believe what you found in this case.

Before I started heating and cooling my work area, I chose the one which worked best for the temps soon to come.

How about running a couple of pieces with the "Extends"? (since my rountuit is still repairing from termites)

David


[QUOTE=Gene Callison]

Gene, I am surprised about the Titebond Original. I think Franklin claims superior strength for it over TBII. I don't have the chart in front of me, so I am not positive.

The flexibility can work for you or against you depending on circumstances. Glue creep can be a pain when it occurs. And I am convinced that my router table (is it OK to say that over here? ) sagged partly due to that movement. Other times it is great.

David,

That's interesting about Franklin's claim that TB II is not as strong as the Original. When I glued the TB II sample, I thought I should make up another sample because I felt that I did not apply enough glue as well as the fact that I used a little too much clamping pressure. But it turned out it was way stronger. Try the test yourself and let me know. I'd also be interested in the same test with Gorilla glue if someone would do that.

Gene

[Gene Collison]

How about running a couple of pieces with the "Extends"? (since my rountuit is still repairing from termites)

David[/QUOTE]

I can try the Original Extend, that's all I have right now. I'll let you know the results.

Gene

[Carl Eyman]

Now you've got me thinking what have I glued with polyeurathane. I can't remember for sure. Well. I'll try not to lose any sleep over it - or did I use it when I fixed the bed? OH Me! Carl

[Gene Collison]

[

How about running a couple of pieces with the "Extends"? (since my rountuit is still repairing from termites)

David[/QUOTE]
David,

I tested the original extend, it pulled several layers of ply out during breakage. It's STRONG!!

Gene

[John Christiansen]

This just goes to show that testing under different conditions will end with different results.

When I was testing glues on IPE, I tried both tightbonds 1 and 2, elmers carpenters wood glue, Weldwood plastic resin glue, and Gorilla glue. Not Tightbond polyurethane, but I would suspect that Tightbond would blend their polyurethane to be at least as good as Gorilla glue. They have a pretty substantial name to uphold.

With each test piece except Gorilla glue, I was able to break the test samples apart on the glue line, by holding one half in a vise and rapping the other half with a hammer. And by holding one half in the vise and using a pipe wrench to twist them. I was not able to split the gorilla glue on the glue line. All I ended up with was a bunch of little pieces of IPE glued to other little pieces of IPE. I also could not get the plastic resin glue to break on the glue line by twisting.

I'm sold on Gorilla glue, and will remain so until I experience failure. Wet or dry, I dunno about that, but I will continue to use it wet, because that's what the directions say, and that's the way I performed my test.

Come March of next year, my tables will have endured one year of Michigan weather. Could get pretty harsh here in a few months. (hope not) I will add a report to my site at that time how things held up.

[Gene Collison]

To follow up on my original test of Titebond Polyurethane I have some more recent information and tests that you guys and gals may be interested in. After numerous failures while performing comparitive tests with TP glue I decided to call Franklin about the problem. The gentleman I spoke to asked me numerous questions about how I was using the product. I seemed to have passed his tests because he could not explain the reasons for the failures I had experienced. He offered to send me another container of TP and I accepted. When the glue arrived, I repeated the same tests as before. That was a T joint using 3/4" ply. I carefully dampened both pieces where the jint would be and applied the product to both pieces and clamped being careful of not getting too much squeeze out. After curing for 24 hours I put the test piece in my vice and lightly hit the vertical piece with the palm of my hand. It popped like a carrot right down the middle of the joint leaving both poeces undamaged. I swear that paint may be stronger. In view of my tests, I would recommend that this product be avoided.

Gene

[John Miliunas]

Gene, thanks so very much for your informative report and followup on the tests you performed. Luckily, I've had little need for the poly. I even use TBII on my cutting boards and haven't had any problems. Sounds to me like plain old white glue would do better!

[David Rose]

I also appreciate the further testing. I still haven't had (or made) the time to run tests on the glues mentioned. I'm working on a cedar arbor that will end up outdoors and did do an edge test on that with West System Epoxy. It held well, but I suspect anything would be stronger than cedar anyway.

David