#4 Blade question

[Bob Hallowell]

I have a bedrock 604. I recently bought a LV A2 steel blade for it. I honed it up and taper the edges some. but when I use it the chips are different. first off the come out staight instead of curled. plus they just plain look different. I put the old SW blade back on and it made nice curly shavings.

I can get both to take .001 shavings. it just the A2 blade doesn't feel as good.

The A2 is set at 30deg with a 1deg micro bevel and the SW is set at 25deg with a 1 degree micro bevel. Both would clean shave my arm with one pass.

I spent a few bucks on this blade and to tell you the truth the original seems much smoother to me.

Why is this.
Bob

[jonathan snyder]

Bob,

I have no idea, but I just ordered the same blade for my Stanley type 11. I hope it is an improvement to what I have. Hopefully someone else will chime in and give you an answer. I let you know how mine works out after I get it.

Jonathan

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

I found A2 "grabby" (for lack of a better word). I found it worked much better (and I was a lot happier with it) after I hollow ground it on the Tormek.

That said, I nicked it while planing some teak, so it'll be a spell before I use it again (gotta drag the Tormek back into the house for that).

I have the Hock blade, not the LV one, btw.

[Jake Darvall]

So, the shavings with the A2 blade comes out straight. Whys that bad ?..... Is the plane harder to push with the A2 blade installed ? Thats the important question in my book ?

Whats else differs between the blades other than the steel quality ?

Is the A2 thicker ? I'm guessing its a mill or so thicker.

How about the bevel angle. When you sharpen the A2 blade at 25 degree's does it perform the same ? Try that I reakon.

My feeling is.....there's a difference in the way you've setup the blades, and not so a problem with the A2 blade. Just my first impressions though..... have to experiment a bit I guess. Goodluck.

[Bob Hallowell]

Yes the blade feels more grabby as Dierdre said. The Iron is thicker and is set at a 30deg as I said. I hated to regrind cause in my mind it should not of made a difference. But if someone thinks it will I will try.

the chips being straight don't bother me I was just pointing out what was differtent.

The SW blade just kinda whooses alaong and the a2 doesn't. I took a pic and if you look real close you can see the different chips and the A2 one has little ridges all through it.

Bob

[Jake Darvall]

Bob, I'm thinking the problems a small shaving jam situation due to the thicker blade.

In that pic I see wrinkles in the shaving, yes ?,,,,,,well that might mean the mouth is too closed up, which may make sense since the blades thicker.

So, I wouldn't bother regrinding that A2 blade at first.....I'd first try moving the fog back a little , if you haven't already tried......just move back a little at a time ....just until the shaving comes out free-er.....Still want the mouth to be set as close as possible.

Also, I'd consider filing a relief off the front of the planes mouth....uno, from the top your filing an angle to the front of the mouth, to give more room for shavings to flow out.

[tod evans]

bob, i have a hard time with the type of steel in the blade causing the plane to cut differently? i`m with jake here and think the mouth may be a tad tight. while you`re checking stuff check the cap iron to make sure it`s seated correctly. i`d be hesitant to take a file to a bedrock but that`s just me ....02 tod

[Bob Hallowell]

I had the cap iron to close to the edge of the iron. But not by much. That made er' much better. Thanks guys.

Bob

[Bob Smalser]

I think you're wasting your dough, replacing perfectly good blades.

[harry strasil]

Amen to that statement Bob.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Bob, wouldn't the better steel provide a longer lasting edge? Much like that you advocate for chisels?

As well, one of the features of old Ohio plane irons which make them better than a stock Stanley is the thicker business end. Less chatter, and notably better steel. As old Ohio blades are a scarce commodity, isn't a replacement blade from Hock et al a decent option for those same attributes?

Take care, Mike

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

I like having a second blade for a plane. I didn't "replace" my blade, I just found it more economical to have a second blade for the same plane to increase working time. As a general rule, it stays sharper longer, but even A2 is prone to nicking on teak.

[Bob Smalser]

Bob, wouldn't the better steel provide a longer lasting edge? Much like that you advocate for chisels?

As well, one of the features of old Ohio plane irons which make them better than a stock Stanley is the thicker business end. Less chatter, and notably better steel. As old Ohio blades are a scarce commodity, isn't a replacement blade from Hock et al a decent option for those same attributes?

I bought a Hock iron set to try it a couple years ago based on forum comments....a fine blade all right, but performance-wise, it doesn't make any difference at all to me. It certainly isn't going to make a 3lb, 45-degree plane work like a 5lb, 50-degree plane, and there's a lot more to chatter than thick irons. Another half-turn on the mounting screw after the iron is set will cure chatter....if you need two plane adjustments for the job, then use two planes.

There's so much more going on in a plane to get the best out of it that a higher-speed iron set alone doesn't add much incrementally. If your planes are performing significantly better with an aftermarket iron as opposed to stock, then my guess is, either your sharpening or your fettling could stand some work.

[Mike Wenzloff]

Main issue is edge retention in my view, *not* performance. Thicker new-steel blades don't get any sharper than thin. Don't produce better shavings. They do have better edge retention, just like better steel in chisels.

And while I hone the tools in use many times during the day, I'm not opposed to better steel lasting longer--whether that steel is HC [my preference] or A2.

Reduction/elimination of chatter and or simple blade flex on rank shavings is a great by product of the thicker iron--assuming the plane is fettled properly to begin with.

I don't think a plane is a complex device. Fettling isn't rocket science. Neither is sharpening. But thanks for the thought.

Take care, Mike

[Bob Smalser]

I don't think a plane is a complex device. Fettling isn't rocket science. Neither is sharpening. But thanks for the thought.

The reliance on ready-tuned prestige planes, Tormeks, etc, et al among the various hand tool forum participants tells me either they are overcome with brand-name status, could use some coaching, or both. Plenty have sure come by here, and I've tried a lot of high-speed planes.

All this stuff has to have practical application in materials or manhours to be really meaningful. An A2 edge only lasts slightly longer because the steel is slightly harder, and harder steel takes longer to sharpen. You might feel better, but you really don't gain a lot. And blades thicker than the chipbreaker and mounting screw need to prevent chatter are merely excess weight better and more cheaply done in lead if weight is what you want.

Personally, I'm beginning to think the hand tool world is becoming more and more about status and aquisition that woodworking. We're certainly seeing new offerings that have much more to do with collector value than function.