Any Phoenix area creekers willing help me with an air particulate study

[Don Baer]

Which Phoenix area creekers would be willing to let me come into your shop and measure the level on Indoor Air Quality. I'll provide the instrumentation do the work, all you need to do is provide the shop and the sawdust. I will publish the results on this forum. I would prefer various different type of dust collection so that we can test how effective they are in a real shop environment. I'll be testing for fine dust as well as Total Suspended Particulate. This is your chance to help other creekers breath a little easier. I'll be taking pictures but don't clean up your shops..

[Don Baer]

Bumping this for the evening group, due to a lack of response during the day. Picture taking is optional. BTW, I will be sharing the information I gather with Bill Pentz. Measurements taken will not only include particle sizing concentration but will also include air velocity measurements at various points in the DC system, so some might be able to improve the performance of there DC system with the results. It's a free chance to tune up your DC system.

[Frank Chaffee]

Don,
While I don’t know what your timeframe is for this research project, and while I am (err, ah, will be within the year), outside the stated confines of your survey (but what the heck, man, is an hour and a half down the backroad compared to crossing PX on the 101 at an inconvenient hour?), I welcome you to visit, contribute to, and document my shop creation.

So far, after countless man-years of research on SMC, my plan is to ensconce a Wood Sucker cyclone and an air compressor in an outdoor concrete block (grouted cores to above grade, and sand filled above), cabinet that will also support one corner of an open-roofed space into which I can wheel machinery during fair weather (which I read on a website is abundant in Arizona), and then use a barn fan, similar to the one tod incorporates to dispel the nasty fine dusts woodworkers release into the atmosphere.

The sound attenuation provided by the block structure will be for the benefit of neighbors, the existence of whom I have not needed to consider for many a year!

I regret, Don, that I could not meet up with you during my recent stay in Arizona, but I remain optimistic that we will connect in the near future.

Regards,
Frank

[Don Baer]

Frank,
I welcome the chance to peruse your shop creation and made measurement, heck I migh just thow a sound level meter into the batch to check the noise level in you shop. Let me know when it will be convient. I realise that your out of state but with your globe trotting nature I figure it won't be that long before your back out in the real sunshine state and away from the froozen tundra..

[Allan Johanson]

Hi Don,

Will you go on a road trip to Vancouver, BC? I know of several shops you can test with a variety of DCs and tools. I plan on doing the same thing up here if I can get my hands on the testing gear. I have a lead....

Maybe a couple of pics of what's floating around their shops will get some SMCers to respond to you. These pics were posted on another forum and are of some sawdust that was gathered after a fellow cut up some walnut. The sawdust was stuck between pieces of tape then the samples were scanned on a very expensive digital imaging microscope and some particles were measured and pics taken. Dimensions are in microns.

Cheers,

Allan

[Don Baer]

Allen,
Excellent information. I'll be using a Metone Aeroset 531 analyser and be measure PM 2.5 and below as well as TSP. I intend on doing the OSHA 15 min test as well as a general survey of basic equipt and how effective the DC is working. With the instrument selected I can get real time reading. That is if I can get some more shops to volunteer.

[Steve Clardy]

Load that U-Haul and get a little closer to me Don. You can use my shop

[tod evans]

Load that U-Haul and get a little closer to me Don. You can use my shop

while you`re in the sticks stop on by here for a laugh or two.....tod

[Mike Spanbauer]

I've offered my shop to Bill also (live about 30 mins away). Would be excellent to have 10-20 shops and the various results in a location on his website to give some idea's. I've 2 collectors that are on both ends of the scale. A Delta 50-850 that I have both 30mic bags and 1 mic felt bags for. And on the other end an Oneida Pro 2000 5hp cyclone.

Hopefully he'll have the bandwidth to manage some results collection in addition to his many activities planned for this new testing.

Mike

[Don Baer]

Mike,
Bill and I have been talking and I have recommended the same instrument to him so that the data we get is consistant. I would love to get a few more Arizona Creekers to step up but so far I anly have a part time Arizona creeker. I'll keep this post on the front page for the weekend then I figure thats the best I'm gonna get. Come on AZ creekers I'll burn the gas to come to your shop, how about letting me help others and perhaps yourself breath a little easier. I'll expand the study area to anywhere in AZ.

[Bill Pentz]

Don,

I ordered up my meter, a Met One 531 as you suggested and already have a few who would like to borrow that meter to test shops in their local areas. I sent you an email on some thoughts I had on testing, but welcome your input and the input of anyone else who has thoughts on what they would like to see from this testing.

I am thinking about ensuring the shop sits unused for two days, then test the outdoor air, indoor shop air, and indoor home air if the home is shop attached. Then turn on the existing dust collection without doing any woodworking and do another test plus see if there are problems with the filters passing too much dust. In the tests I paid to have run on my shop, the biggest issue was previously made dust that had built up over time instead of just the dust I was making. Then cut say 50 board feet of 3/4" MDF with the dust collection system running and test again. If time permits do one final test that determines how long it takes until the air, if bad, comes down safe enough to work without wearing a mask.

Thoughts are welcome, plus will be looking for volunteer shops in the Sacramento, California area as well. I also hope to be traveling to the LA Santa Barbara area in a few weeks so could consider testing a few shops there as well.

bill

[Don Baer]

Bill,
I got your E mail and agree that we should come up with some sort of standards for testing so that any data we come up with will be relevant. The 531 is small enough that it can be worn by the person doing the testing and I would suggest that when you measure you do it in the breathing zone, that is around you chest area. I would also think that measuring TSP and PM 2.5 would be the data we are looking for or do you think PM 10 and PM 2.5 would be more relavant to health issues.

[Joe Jensen]

Which Phoenix area creekers would be willing to let me come into your shop and measure the level on Indoor Air Quality. I'll provide the instrumentation do the work, all you need to do is provide the shop and the sawdust. I will publish the results on this forum. I would prefer various different type of dust collection so that we can test how effective they are in a real shop environment. I'll be testing for fine dust as well as Total Suspended Particulate. This is your chance to help other creekers breath a little easier. I'll be taking pictures but don't clean up your shops..

I'm in tempe, what is your timeframe? I'm a busy dad in this is my hobby. I do have a recently installed central dust collection system.

[Don Baer]

Joe,
I can do this at your convience, there is no particular time frame as the study is ongoing. Thanks for offering. I'll sen you a PM so we can set something up at your convience.

[Bill Pentz]

Don,

Good points and questions. I know OSHA is most concerned with TSP and that is what almost all the studies and insurance data for woodworkers use. My doctor friend says we really should look at PM 10, PM 5, PM 2.5, and PM 1 counts/levels as well.

For those who don't know the PM designations mean particles of a particular size and smaller. For instance PM 10 would be those particles sized 10-microns and smaller. A 10-micron particle is just smaller than what we can see without magnification. Likewise, these same PM 10 are known as the bad guys because they get by most of our respiratory protections, triggering and inducing allergies, etc. then lodge in our tissues where our bodies have a difficult time getting rid of them. My doc said the PM 5 measurement is also important because these are well studied and the particles that tend to lodge in the nose, sinus and throat tissues. The PM 2.5 are the most heavily studied and lodge in our lung tissue. The PM 1 are small enough to go directly into our blood getting carried all over our bodies. In short he would like to see us measure PM 10, 5, 2.5 and 1 plus the TSP.

bill