What is happening around here???

[tod evans]

For the first time I am disappointed in SMC. In response to Dennis Peacock's thread on the Neander site where he expressed his frustrations with sharpening, I suggested he have a look at the Fine Woodworking site, where there is a video showing an expert sharpening a plane iron. I pointed out the site is not free, but I found it helpful. It got pulled. Can ANYBODY explain why that was pulled?????

Hans Braul

hans, this would be a lively discussion in the support forum. it`s been tried before...........maybe this time it wouldn`t turn into an arguing match? tod

[Hans Braul]

hans, this would be a lively discussion in the support forum. it`s been tried before...........maybe this time it wouldn`t turn into an arguing match? tod

Sorry Tod I don't follow. What's been tried before, and what would be a lively discussion - the sharpening thread or the issue of censorship?

Thanks
Hans

[Frank Pellow]

Sorry Tod I don't follow. What's been tried before, and what would be a lively discussion - the sharpening thread or the issue of censorship?

Thanks
Hans

Hans, I'm sure that Tod is talking about the ways in which censorship is applied at SMC.

[Richard Wolf]

I find the cenorship and removal of treads more than annoying, it's a violation of our freedom of speech. I do realize that this forum is not run along the principles of the United States of America, but every post does not need to be vanilla in flavor.
No one expects to be ridiculed or slandered or abused on this forum, but a topic which shows as much interest as the DC tread should not just vanish in the night like a common thief.
It's like we are supposed to wake up and say,"it must have been a bad dream." Well the bad dream is that people think we need protection from some information and they get to decide want we need protection from. I think we should be treated like adults. If your are worried about your kids reading something on this fourm, check their computer history, they most likely have been down far darker roads.

Really tired of it.

Richard

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Admin Response:
Keith Outten
* As this is a privately owned fourm, your First Amendment Rights aren't guarenteed here.
* The Dust Collection thread you refered to was removed because SMC isn't the proper place for vendors to resolve their differences.
* You certainly should be treated like an adult and the children who are Members here should not.

[tod evans]

Sorry Tod I don't follow. What's been tried before, and what would be a lively discussion - the sharpening thread or the issue of censorship?

Thanks
Hans

hans, the issue of censorship......sharpening is usually a good discussion but it seldom gets heated unless a "brand war" starts. i`ll reserve comment for another thread......sorry paul. tod

[Ken Salisbury]

I wonder why the use of "censorship" keeps coming up. It is not censorship that causes threads to get moved or closed. It's violations of the rules (Terms of Service) that cause such actions. Personal bashing, profanity, disrepect and name calling are all violations. Those are the reasons the Administration pulled the thread.

a lot of people will have read Robert critzing Bill - but not giving Bill the chance to respond

Bill had logged on twice that I know of while the thread was active so he had plenty of opportunity to respond.

[tod evans]

ken, would it have been better for the smc community if the body of the thread had remained intact and the offensive post(s) edited or deleeted? it seems to me that the subject of dust collection and personal health is a very relevent and pertinent one for this community.......tod

[Charles McCracken]

Paul,

Since I try to stay out of controversial threads I don't know the background for this post. However, I take offense at your implication that company representatives only participate to promote their products. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, even if it is extremely cynical. Please be aware that there is nothing preventing the representatives of all of the woodworking machinery and tooling manufacturers from posting on this or any other forum. Perhaps instead of lashing out at those that are on the forum you should take aim at the ones who only lurk and never contribute.

[Ken Salisbury]

ken, would it have been better for the smc community if the body of the thread had remained intact and the offensive post(s) edited or deleeted? it seems to me that the subject of dust collection and personal health is a very relevent and pertinent one for this community.......tod

NO- There were 91 reponses to deal with - I had already edited/deleted many posts - I don't have the time to go to a thread 5 or 6 times a day to insure to insure that the immature are not at work again. It's just the way it is = sometimes people won't listen.



For those who missed it - here is a portion of my response before the thread was moved to the Moderators Forum:



I had to do a lot of editing in this thread to remove profanity, off topic responses, personal bashing, etc, etc. which I really shouldn't have to do. If the membership would just remember what I have said over and over again in the past: "put your brain in gear before you energize the clutch on you keyboard." we would be better off.

I am somewhat biased here because of some controversies in the past with Mr Pentz so I will refrain from commenting (as much as I would like to).

Having said that, some posts asked if anyone had actually been seriously affected from wood shop dust. I guess you could call lung cancer serious. In June 2005 I was diagnosed with lung cancer in both lungs and was given as little as 3 months to live. I have been woodworking since my years in my Grandad's shop when I was 12 years old (now 74). So that equates to 62 years of exposure.

No one can really say whether or not the wood dust, solvents, etc had anything at all to my contracting cancer. However my Oncolgist said that he believed it had to be at least a contributing factor. He must know what he is talking about since he is good enough to have cured my cancer after 16 months of extensive treatments of chemo and some new experimental drugs.

At the moment I am "cancer free" and on the road to a full recovery, a miracle it itself. The down side is that at the suggestion of my doctors I have had to stay away from the shop and have not had the opportunity to do what I have always loved so much in doing --- woodworking.

Everyone should take the dust issue seriously but not to the point of becoming irrational as some of the poster's in this thread seem to have done.

Things like accusing the original thread starter of being an imposter, personally attacking him or Mr Pentz are uncalled for and SMC is not the place for that type of conduct.

[Bart Leetch]

Well I didn't see all of the postings to the post in question. I am glad I didn't post to it. I thought about it & then though just let the two people involved address each other sticking my oar in isn't going to change anything.

[Keith Outten]

I pulled the thread in question early this morning.

Ken Salisbury already touched on most of my reasons for removing the Dust Collection thread but I would like to add that SawMill Creek isn't the proper place for managers of companies to resolve their differences. The violations of our TOS in this thread particularly our rule of not attacking another Member of our Community placed the thread in jeopardy from the beginning, the topic is important to all of us and it is unfortunate that the intent was not to share information about dust collection.

Removing the thread instead of ending it is customary here, many disagree with this policy but we feell it doesn't serve our Community to leave these kinds of threads accessible, for the most part they set a bad example for others and would allow the violations to remain public possibly placing us a bad position legally.

You are certainly allowed and encouraged to debate any woodworking subject here at SMC but it needs to be done the proper way. I think everyone knows exactly what I mean and everyone knows when a thread turns South it will be removed. When this happens it isn't the Moderators or Adminstrators fault, it is one or more of our Members who causes this to happen so place the blame where it lies.

My first obligation is to protect our Community.

Let me remind everyone that this is why we are here. Click on this link
The ability to view this kind of craftmanship and communicate with people this talented is what makes The Creek a friendly and informative place to visit.

.

[Steve Clardy]

I for one like a lively debate between two parties that don't agree with something.
I was hoping that the one called to the round table would respond, in a gentleman way, and see what they both had to say.

I hated seeing that DC thread being pulled, not available this morning.

If it was necessary to lock it, then lock it.
But don't pull it completely from our viewing.
I guess we are not allowed to see those debates here.
Too much control of what we are allowed too see here is not a good idea.

[Byron Trantham]

If your are worried about your kids reading something on this fourm, check their computer history, they most likely have been down far darker roads.

Really tired of it.

Richard

Here, Here!!!!!

[Mark Rios]

I"ve been vocal about the some of the editing here and am still confused once in a while about how it's applied but in this case I was expecting it. This one definately needed to be. It wasn't a productive thread, as has been mentioned.

Just a note that may be interesting or not, woodnet had a VERY large upset regarding DC recently and had to make some changes to what is allowed when DC threads are posted. I was wondering if that argument had wandered over here since it couldn't be had over on woodnet any more.

Apparently, there are quite a few more company reps than I was aware of who come and visit the Creek. I'm a little dense sometimes on picking up this kind of thing but if they are a little hard to pick out that is probably a very good thing. For them to post here to maybe explain something about their product or to help out when a customer has trouble with their product is nothing but helpful and productive and I thank them for being here. But to start a thread merely to argue back against someone else just isn't appropriate anywhere, IMHO. That, coupled with the bad language that was being used made it a thread that was sad to see. While lively discussion and debate over a topic can be very interesting and informative, the thread in question had nothing of value to us and alot that was bad. It needed to be pulled.

[Alan Simpson]

IBut to start a thread merely to argue back against someone else just isn't appropriate anywhere, IMHO.

I happen to completely disagree with that. The other party involved has been doing it for years. How do you propose the very companies he slanders fight back??? A mass mailing?

I believe if you're going to let one party talk bad about another on a public forum, it's only right to let the other party respond. You can only take punches to the gut for so long before you have to do something about it...