What would you guys do?

[Kevin Blunt]

Good afternoon fellow dustmakers ( I guess I should say shavingmakers in this section).

I posted a few days ago about the necessity for an 8000ws. I ventured down to Lee valley to exchange an item and got into looking at the Norton lineup of waterstones. Well, I ended up with a 1000/4000x Norton waterstone and am now wondering if I made the right decision. Here is my thinking: originally I had bought the 1000/4000x combination stone for cost reasons but now I am thinking that for an extra $40cdn I could have purchased a full size (8x3x1) of each stone. Basically, a dedicated stone for each purpose. 1000x and 4000x on their own instead of a combination stone. Currently I own the Norton flattening stone and a full size Norton 220x that just gets used for removing severe damage on a plane blade or chisel. If I returned the comb. stone and purcahsed a 1000x nd a 4000x on their own, would that be any better? Then If I feel the need to travel into the 8000x stones at a later date I could always do that. That way I would have the full set of 8x3x1 ws from Norton.

I guess what this post really boils down to are these few questions.
1. Is there any disadvantage to combination stones? If so, what?
2. For those of you who use Norton stones, which do you consider mandatory for your shop and which grits could you deal with not having?

Thank you all in advance for taking the time to help a rookie sharpener.

Kevin

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Kevin, the only dissadvantage to combo stones is the dissparity of soaking and a minor nit-pic is the fact of wearing for less time and differently. The higher grits in theory should not remain in water for storage.

In practice, I know of no one which has had the higher grits go soft due to it, nor the bonding to separate.

Heck, I would use them as is simply because you already have them, and it is a cheaper investment if you decide to change sharpening medium down the road.

Take care, Mike

[Noel Hegan]

Kevin, a further consideration with combo stones is the possibility of contamination, especially with a 1000 / 4000 stone. Personally I'm not sure how big an issue it could be but I know for some people it has caused problems and I suppose having to wash one side of the combo stone before flipping over can be a nuisance.
The larger size is a big plus for me and I can also use one side for gouges etc and keep a "good" side for plane and chisel blades.
My own set-up consists of King 250 & 1000 and Norton 4000 & 8000 and the green crayon on MDF or Maple etc and have no regrets.
Incidentially how does the Norton flattening stone perform?

Rgds

Noel

[Mike Henderson]

I can give you my experience with the Norton flattening stone.

It works very well to abrade the working stones and will "flatten" them quickly. The problem? Well, you have to keep the flattening stone flat. What I found is that the flattening stone gets rounded fairly quickly. The reason is that your working stone tends to wear in the center. So when you flatten it, what's really happening is that the flattening stone is being abraded on the ends - you stop as soon as the center of your working stone is reached. Unless you flatten the flattening stone on a fairly regular basis, you'll find that you're not really flattening your working stones - you're dishing them.

The best thing I found for flattening working stones is the DMT diamond plate.

Mike

[Phil Hirz]

I agree with Mike. I bought a Norton flattening stone last year. I liked it at first, but later had issues with it. I don't know how I managed to do it, but like an idiot I managed to get my waterstones so far out of flat that they would rock back and forth. It took me several hours to flatten the stones again and to correct the damage I did to the back of one of my new plane blades I was trying to sharpen.

I recently bought a DMT coarse/ extra-course diamond plate and I like it much better. I could probably make the norton stone work now that I have more experience, but it is still a hassle. A flattening stone that you have to flatten kind of defeats the purpose. You might as well flatten your stones the same way you would flatten your flattening stone.

-Phil

[Noel Hegan]

Thanks, so you need a flattening stone to flatten the flattening stone to flatten your working stones...............
Sorry Kevin, bit of a hi-jacking there. I don't think you'll go wrong with dedicated stones for your sharpening needs.


Noel

[Eddie Darby]

Good afternoon fellow dustmakers ( I guess I should say shavingmakers in this section).

I guess you could say fellow grinders if it's about sharpening. :-)
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"I guess what this post really boils down to are these few questions.
1. Is there any disadvantage to combination stones? If so, what?
2. For those of you who use Norton stones, which do you consider mandatory for your shop and which grits could you deal with not having?

Thank you all in advance for taking the time to help a rookie sharpener.

Kevin"
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1. The idea of a combo stone comes in handy when you have limited space, like say a tool box, otherwise I would think that it is not cost effective to combine the two. One grit, the coarser, will wear much faster, leaving a thin fine grit stone that can't be fully utilized.

2. I have heard that the 220x grit stone has problems with it contaminating other stones, and so I would keep it well clear of any of the other stones you have, and clean up very well after using it.
If price is a problem, then hold off on the 8,000x stone til last. I have all three of the higher grits and love them.

I had to chamfer the edge of the 1,000x when it was brand new, with a file, since for some reason Norton don't perform this job on that one grit stone.

For flattening, has anyone tried using a cinder-block? Very large surface, very flat, and cheap.

[Kevin Blunt]

For flattening, has anyone tried using a cinder-block? Very large surface, very flat, and cheap.

I read just recently that this works very well on oilstones. Eddie, do you have much experience doing this. I planned on doing this when the Flattening stone needs to be flattened. I actually grabbed a cinder block from work that was nice and clean but it is still sitting in th etruck at work. I plan on bringing it home and keeping it under the workbench. I appreciate hearing any experiences anyone has doing this.

[Jake Darvall]

Honestly, I wouldn't even leave waterstones in water unless they have been flatterned immediatly prior. Not that it will ever hurt them....but, because if they dry out they take just seconds to flattern. Comes off like chalk on a blackboard. And easy to eyeball for flatness.( the high spots are easy to see)

So, for that reason owning multiples of medium and fine stones is the way to go I believe, so you reduce flatterning time, because at least one of them is more likely to be dry for a quick flatterning (THEN leave it in the water).

Buying many at once may seem costly, but you won't go through them any faster, and none will go to waste. Save you time in the long run.

(and no I don't sell waterstones for a living )

[Steve Wargo]

I have the 220/1000 grit and 4000/8000 grit combo stones. I leave them in a box with about 3/4" of water and store them on their sides. I've never had any problems with them. I have the Norton Flattening stone and it works great, very fast. It does need to be maintained though like the other stones. I keep that stored in a seperate water box face down in about 1/2" of water. I flatten the 220/1000 grit stone with the flattening stone, then use the 1000 grit to flatten the 4000/8000 grit stones. Never have an issue with contamination, and I'm very pleased with the durability of the NOrton Stones. Their customer service is also top notch. good luck with your purchase.

[Keith Hooks]

The only comment I would make is that the finer stones are more expensive and that's it's cheaper to buy a 4000/8000 and a 1000 than to buy a 1000/4000 and an 8000. Since the higher grit stones wear slower, I think the 4000/8000 combo is the best value.

[Noel Hegan]

I believe drywall screen is also a good flattening medium. Something that I've been meaning to try.

Noel

[Mike Henderson]

This is a flattening comment. I'm sure that many other people do this, but when I flatten a working stone, I write "OK" on it in the center with a pencil. When that "OK" disappears, it's time to flatten again.

Mike

[Dan Moening]

Here are a few random thoughts regarding waterstones:

- Utilize the 1" narrow edge for sharpening narrow chisels. This will help to eliminate dishing out the broad flat portion of the stone that can be reserved for wider chisels and plane irons.

- A single stone has 2 sides. You can always flop the stone over to the other side if you discover it's dished during a session and don't want to stop and flatten.

- Most chisels and blade irons will function quite well right off a 4000 grit stone; whereas, a smoothing plane blade needs finer honing. (IMO/E).

[Ken Bryant]

I have Norton stones in all-too-many sizes. For most sharpening I go straight from 1000 (to get a burr) to 8000 (to remove the burr and put on a microbevel).

I also use a diamond plate to flatten the stones. I used to use a second 1000 grit Norton stone for that, but I find the diamond works faster.