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Thread: Question

  1. Question

    Aaron Koehl
    SMC Administrator

    And to answer your thread title, yes, you can ask any question you'd like. I just hope it's not rhetorical for the sake of provoking others.
    Keith Outten
    Administrator

    We rarely ban people from SMC. This is a friendly Community and only those who refuse to be friendly will feel unwelcome.
    I do not write this question without understanding there will be consequences. I suspect at least the thread will disappear. I also suspect my membership will be terminated for merely asking this question publicly. Tis a pity.

    This morning Frank Pellow made a post letting members here know he was leaving SMC for a time. And politely a reason or two why. There was nothing in the TOS which prohibited this post of Frank's. From reading his post one could almost hear the sadness of his decision.

    Ironically, though his post mentioned as one reason the uneven moderation, his post was summarily deleted and apparently his account terminated.

    As Frank's post was public--and the action of the moderation public as well--I ask this question in public: Why was both Frank's post deleted and his membership terminated over his post when it did not violate the TOS? As well, a responder to that thread also had his membership terminated. Why?

    As I wrote above, I suspect this post at least will go away. I suspect my membership will as well. I have not written this, as Aaron says above, to provoke others. As a current member of SMC, what one does affects us all. This applies both ways.

    The apparent discontent isn't really as much people wanting SMC to change into "another" thing. Mainly, people just want to know why things are done this way and want them to be more consistent. Wouldn't SMC benefit from that?

    Thank you, Mike

  2. #2
    I decided to delete my post.

    Lets just say I will sadly miss many of the folks who don't seem to be around anymore. It is unfortunate as it absolutely didn't need to be this way.

    Greg
    Last edited by Greg Ladd; 10-17-2006 at 6:53 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rio Rancho, NM
    Posts
    2,568
    I'm a relative newbie here, and maybe I'm chiming in where I shouldn't, but I have not seen anything to lead me to believe that the mods are anything BUT evenhanded. There have been some pretty nasty things said, but when all is said and done, this is Keith's and Aaron's site, they make the rules, there are TOS, and if we, as members, don't like them, we can leave.

    I compare this to an acquaintance inviting me into his/her home to meet friends of like interests, and when two or more of the guests get into a fist fight, they are invited to leave. As I have read before, this forum is not a democracy and the freedom of speech issue needs to be left at the door.

    I read Frank's post, and I also felt that he was sad to say what he had to say. However, he didn't have to say it--all he had to do was say something simple like "I don't like it here any more. I'm leaving" and be on his way. But he had to (again) raise the issue of mods being "heavy-handed" or un-evenhanded, and (again) start an ugly discussion with accusations flying back and forth, and pushing the mods into a corner.

    There are going to be posts/threads deleted by the mods. Get over it. As has been said by others, Keith, Aaron, Jim, Dennis, and all the others are doing this as a labor of love--love of their fellowman and love of woodworking. For anyone, I don't care who it is, to jump in their @#$% just because (generic) you don't like something is like telling your neighbor "I don't like the color of your house, so change it to a color I like."

    My feeling is that if you want to be a part of an amiable and amenable community of individuals who like to do much of the same things--work with wood in various forms--then stay and keep to the topic at hand. If you don't like something, leave, and don't let the door hit you in the posterior portions.

    I've been a member here only since August, and I've "met" some very nice, helpful, and friendly people on this forum (and joining happened to cost me a lot of money for the new laser shop I found on here). I've also observed some not-so nice, not-so helpful, and not-so friendly people on this forum, and I choose to steer clear of the threads they are involved in. Don't you do the same thing in your everyday life? Avoid the sourpusses and negative thinkers, cultivate the nice and friendly people you encounter? What makes it so different here?

    Although I may not agree with Keith/Aaron, whoever pulled the thread from this morning had the absolute right to do so to avoid starting another war of words over the moderating--something that shouldn't ever start. I'm just so tired of the sniping--at each other and at the mods. This is THE BEST and the most-informative forum I have found for the various types of woodworking, and sniping, complaining, griping, etc. are counter-productive to what Keith, Aaron, and the others are trying to do here. Just take a chill pill.

    Some of these posts remind me of what my grandmother used to say: "if you don't (insert your own demand here), I'm going to pull up my pants and go home." I think that there are some people here who need just to pull their pants and leave.

    I think this is worth more than two cents, but not much more.

    Nancy (I'm not putting David's name on this sig, because these are my thoughts, not his).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Lacey, Washington
    Posts
    412
    Well said Nancy. Dick B.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    262
    Hi Mike,

    One doesn't comment on this stuff lately without some trepidition, though as I don't post here much anyway, I can't say as I value membership highly. We all accept the rules when we sign up, I suppose I'm more disappointed than surprised to find some un-written ones as well. Tough question. There are analogies everywhere from the local gradeschool at recess right up to recent international nuclear events. What is it that makes people push so hard when they're convinced they're right? Why not just walk away without that one last swipe? Why can't we just leave a perceived injustice alone when there's nothing we can do about it? I suppose those are the answering questions from the other side of the fence when you asked yours.

    Its very easy to parrot the usual stuff about there being no rights on the internet. But on the other hand, many of the people who have been "guested" were respected members of a community. They protested that community turning into something they could not respect. As you say, tis a pity. In the case of this morning, I didn't think so when I read it, but now I wonder if its partly a method of confirming that the community has really changed. Maybe that's why you ask your questions as well.

    I can't agree with Nancy I'm afraid, its not saying "paint your house a color I like". Its more like the reaction to a respected friend who suddenly utters a racial slur. Sure, its their sandbox, and if they want to behave that way one can't stop them. Some protest even though they know the consequences. A few at least do so less to pick a fight as to try to nudge that respected friend back into the middle of the road, which is why I think Mike is asking this question.

    John

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    Mike,

    We aren't machines and it is absolutely impossible to be perfect all of the time. Moderation isn't an easy task on a Forum of this size and considering how many Members and their varied backgrounds it makes it even more difficult to adjust our Moderation efforts to suit everyone al of the time.

    Many have offered us advice, they want us to explain everything we do without considering the additional impact on our personal time. I wish we could implement just half of the good advice we have received but it is just impossible witthout a full-time professional Staff. Many think that what you see on the front side of SawMIll Creek is all there is;
    What about all the Private Messages we respond to every day?
    What about the hours we spend defending our server from attacks and malicious users?
    What about the time we spend working behind the scenes preparing new Forums, working on software and hardware?
    What about the countless hours we spend contacting vendors to coordinate FreeStuff Drawings?

    I could go on and on but the point is that you can't see a very large portion of the job we do and it is so easy to attack us publicly using our resources with a minimal understanding of the job we do as volunteers.

    The bottom line is that our Members are tired of these kinds of threads spreading discontent. The Private Messages I have been receiving have all asked me to end the discontent by removing access to those who are unhappy, which is what I have been doing. Swiftly and without warning I have been cleaning up around The Creek, those who are no longer with us I feel don't deserve a warning as they have shown our Staff and the Members of this Community very little respect. I would love to publicly share with our Members the content of the Private Messages our Moderators have received from thsoe whose only goal is to disrupt our Community but that would violate our TOS. It would be real boost to the morale of our Moderators if our Members could read for themselves the foul language and personal attacks they have had to endure.

    Why don't you read Nancy's post above, she has explained our position as well as anyone could, if you are unhappy just leave SMC..but do it quietly.

    .

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