Smithy v. Shopsmith?

[CPeter James]

I don't know where you are located, but here in New Hampshire, there are at any given time time a dozen or so ShopSmiths for sale. We have a local (New England) classified paper that also does internet and there is always Craig's List. Prices range from $200 and up.

If money is the issue, look around for used tools. I have a shop full of top of the line stuff that I picked up here and there. I try not to pay more that 40% of new cost for a tool in top condition and one that needs a little work even less. Most woodworking tools have few moving parts and bearings and belts are inexpensive.

CPeter

[Rennie Heuer]

I'll jump in and echo much of what has been said. I owned a SS for over 25 years, first real WW tool I owned. It made sense for me because my shop was in a basment (converted coal bin actually) of a very old house with 7' ceilings and a total work area of about 8 x 12. It was OK for small projects, though I see many people turning out some very nice work on a SS, but it does not do any one thing very well. As soon as I had the room I went for stationary machines.

If you do wind up with the SS let me give one word of caution. PLAN. Because you need to set up each tool for use you can't 'forget' to do something and just go back an make a quick cut or drill one more hole. Plan every step to minimize your set up time. Also, repeatability can be a real issue as there are no scales for ripping, and the table tipping can be a bear to get right. Forget about a bevel on the end of a long board.

You have to ask yourself why there are so many used ones around for sale. I have two theories. 1. People who want to move on to higher levels of WW grow out of them, 2. Lots of people attend the demonstrations, have visions of furnishing their entire home in a few weekends, and take them home only to become frustrated.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound bitter. I loved my SS and made lots of things with it. I just wanted more accuracy and less time 'compensating' and setting up.

Last word - promise - buy used. Many are hardly out of the box condition. Be patient, look around.

[Paul Canaris]

I am not sure what your budget is, but if I understand your need, I would look for a used Robland X-31 or possibly something in a Minimax or Rojek entry level unit. These are all serviceable combination units.

[Dave Lehnert]

I had a ShopSmith and hated it. Even after I got power stands for the bandsaw, jointer, belt sander, and strip sander it just wasn't what I could work with comfortably. The table saw is a tilt table, not arbor and that really is a PITA. Not only that, it's a direct drive. You have to remember to slow the motor down before you shut if off. I'd suggest you get a Grizzly catalog and get some good machines.

The Shopsmith is not a direct drive. You can open the cover and see that. As far as slowing the motor down before you turn it off. That is just a safety issue SS recommends so you don’t stop the SS in table saw mode and switch to the bandsaw and forget to turn down the speed. Has nothing to do with the tool.

I owned my Shopsmith since 1989 and like it a lot. The drill press is the best IMHO. It’s made for woodworking. Not Metalworking like a regular drill press that most use today.

People will ALWAYS make the comment “they can’t be any good because so many are for sale” If you get to know the Shopsmith you will see a lot of them built years ago like in the 60’s. They are built like tanks and so easy to replace any parts that my go wrong that one never does go bad to the point of unusable.

[Dick Brown]

We had a SS at the school shop where I taught. Tried to trade it on other tools and couldn't find even a used tool store that would take it. Don't mean to imply that it isn't a good unit but sure didn't work for us as to much time spent changing for each kid's diffrent needs. Just be aware if you buy one and then go to stand-alone tools, you may find it hard to get rid of.
Dick

[Phil Gwinn]

Wow. Amazingly enough y'all have actually clarified my thinking. The shop that I will have is going to be multipurpose. Woodworking, automotive, metalworking/welding etc. My first big project is actually a stone outdoor kitchen. So part of that floorspace will keep BBQ building tools handy.

I thought alot about the comments by Mr. Blough, "I have one and I really like the things I can do on it. I'm forever building something, shapeing something, fixing something with it. I don't use a jointer, bandsaw, lathe, drill press, disk sander, horizontal boring machine, grinder enough to justify buying standalone."

I really am relating to that. I guess if I get into specified woodworking enough then I'd go for the dedicated machines. But, it sounds like a weekend crafter and part time DIYer might benefit. Thanks again guys, this place is great.

[Steve Rowe]

As to the flexing of the table, not sure what you were doing to flex it with the drill press setup but that seems very extreme to me.

I have noted several responses regarding the flexing of the table and I probably need to clarify. The table flexing I observed was when using a hollow chisel mortiser attachment. The flexing was so severe that the mortise wouldn't even cut perpendicular to the face. I determined that the use of the hollow chisel mortise attachment was hopeless on that machine. I did not notice flexing when using soley as a drill press.

The Mark V that I had was circa 1980 ( I've always wanted to use that term on something that I actually bought new) and later models had what appears to be an improved table and fence system. The newer table design may or may not have the same problem.
Steve

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I have tried to frame a reply and decided to say only this:

I wouldn't have one if it came for free.

[Dave Falkenstein]

With a 20X30 building, why even consider Shopsmith or Smithy? Treat yourself to individual tools as your budget allows.

[Erik C. Hammarlund]

I just dont' think it makes sense.

Well, it makes sense if it's cheap. Which is to say:

IF the price of the shopsmith for the tools you will use is less than the price of comparable separates, AND

IF you don't mind switching between uses, AND

IF you will never want to use multiple machines at the same time (which is not at all uncommon. If you rip strips on the TS you might joint between each one. You might be working on the lathe and also want to use a tool for some unrelated prject. For me, this is a huge deal. I'm slow, I like to work on different things, and I would be frustrated if I could not leave a machine setup and do something else)

THEN a Shopsmith might be for you.

The Euro machines are popular because (for the combos) they are really not that expensive, and they combine a lot of tool power into minimal space. I'm not sure the shopsmith is a good idea.

It really all depends on price. When I spent a whopping 2 minutes on boston craigslist, I found
a 12" delta BS for $175
a 400 lb Blount wood lathe for $150
a Ryobi 6" benchtop jointer for $100, or a much heavier duty jointer for $225
various table saws, including this one for $50, and this heavy dity 12" RAS for $100
and a floor drill press for $50

If you bought ALL of the above items--and chose all of the more expensive, nicer, options I listed--your total cost would be $700.

And if you look JUST at the lathe and jointer, for example, you'd be hard pressed to argue they're not a lot nicer than the SS.

So... would I buy a SS?

Probably. For $300.
But once you're much over that it's a foolish move, iv you've got the space for separates.

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

and like to putter a lot (and I mean a lot) the Shopsmith can serve your needs. But if you want to get some work done then get separate machines. I used my Shopsmith as a horizontal borer and a sanding station. It works great for those two tasks. Otherwise a floor model drill press beats the Shopsmith in every way as far as accuracy and correct drilling speeds. The table saw is dangerous no matter what others my say. The disk sander is almost always too fast for harder woods. The lathe is too light for many tuning tasks and as has been mentioned there is no quill at the tailstock where it is needed. I know the advertising makes it seem interesting, but for most people who really want to work wood, it will become frustrating very quickly. You will find that often after you have changed from one tool to another that you need to return to a previous set up for just a little correction and that will be a major task. A few will like the tool, but for most they will soon want to change to separate tools.

[CPeter James]

I don't know about you, but I am not orgainized enough to do all of one operation and then convert the machine to do the next and so on. In addition, I usually screw up at least one piece and have to go back and make a replacement. I could not even work with the Euro combos because of this. My failing, but I admit it. Besides, when I rip something, I then joint it on an 76" long jointer to try and get it straight and the rip the width plus 1/32" and then joint it again. Just my work methods.

CPeter

[James Crickmay]

Phil
I am looking for a Smithy supershop wood Lathe and came across your comments, you have a european Combo machine can you tell me the maker and where you got it from do you have a photo.

Thanks James

[Ronald Blue]

I am obviously in the minority here since I own two model 510 Shopsmiths. They were both bought used. I leave one setup as a tablesaw and do most other functions on the other. I also have the pro planer and powerstand with a bandsaw on it. Some of the posters are correct that it can be inconvenient switching from one operation to another. The variable speed is great though. Definitely buy used. They aren't anymore dangerous then any other tool. Someday I will upgrade to a cabinet saw. I don't see a need to rush to do that. I do not have the shopsmith jointer. I have an old craftsman which has to go soon. Is it for everyone? Certainly not as you can guess from the previous postings. It's capable if you are patient. As others have said there have been some nice pieces created with one. Check craigslist or ebay and any other possible local shoppers. They have been in business for a long time and all parts are available from them for the newer 500 series.

[Jack Lemley]

I am obviously in the minority here since I own two model 510 Shopsmiths. They were both bought used. I leave one setup as a tablesaw and do most other functions on the other. I also have the pro planer and powerstand with a bandsaw on it. Some of the posters are correct that it can be inconvenient switching from one operation to another. The variable speed is great though. Definitely buy used. They aren't anymore dangerous then any other tool. Someday I will upgrade to a cabinet saw. I don't see a need to rush to do that. I do not have the shopsmith jointer. I have an old craftsman which has to go soon. Is it for everyone? Certainly not as you can guess from the previous postings. It's capable if you are patient. As others have said there have been some nice pieces created with one. Check craigslist or ebay and any other possible local shoppers. They have been in business for a long time and all parts are available from them for the newer 500 series.

Ronald,

+1 member of minority. I bought my Shopsmith Mark V in 1984, upgraded it to the 510, then the 520 and last year I upgraded the headstock to the PowerPro (all upgrades to the original unit). I have built everything from doodads to Cabinet/home enterainments centers measuring 2 feet deep, 7 feet tall and 8 feet long. I built all my home cabinets when I built my home 25 years ago. In addition to the Mark V PowerPro I have a Festool TS55 saw, vac combo that I break down sheet goods with (yes, I used to break down sheet goods on my Mark V till about 5 years ago but when I turned 50 I started looking for easier ways to handle sheet goods. As to dangerous, someone said earlier it is no more dangerous or safe than any other tool on the market with the possible exception of the Sawstop). I t has been rare over the years that setp up changes cost me any time (usually when my planning broke down or I messed up a furniture part and had to remake it). The PowerPro rocks! infinitely variable speeds up to 10,000 rpms. Quiet and smooth running. Same torque through all the speeds (the older models sacrificed torque as the speed increased). The PowerPro upgrade is the same motor and controller "Nova DVR lathe which sells for $2,000 plus). The fact that there are used ones for sale says nothing negative about the SS. The fact that there are 10ERs from the 50's still chugging along says everything! So, quality individual tools are great (if you buy quality your individual tools will knock down some serious change). My shop is 16x24. I have an Incra router table, Kreg assembly bench, SS powerstation w/bandsaw, Festool saw/vac, assembly/sheet goods breakdown table with fold up legs, Delt dust collector, mobile cabinet w/Rigid oss on it and a Makita 10in slider on shop built cabinet on rollers. There is now way I could sacrifice the floor space to get a table sa, lathe, drill press, horizontal borer, well you get the point. So if your shop is 40x40 and you have the green by all means go quality individual tools.

My 2 cents.

Jack