Mortise Chisel Choices - Help!

[Brad Woods]

I am going to be attending a class to build a shaker clock using nothing but hand tools, and I need to get a mortise chisel. Nice used ones are hard to come by and nearly as much as new ones. I have looked and read and studied and researched and have narrowed the choices down to two; the Ray Iles from TFWW and the Lie Nielsen. I don't like the Sorby or the Two Cherries offerings(busted a Sorby last week), and the japanese tools don't interest me either. Any help on the pros and cons of the two would be great! Of course, if I have missed something I should look at, please advise! Thanks

Brad

[Alan Turner]

Brad,
The Ray Isles, from TFWW, are the very best, in my opinion. I have not used the LN mortising chisels, but from the photographs, the LN is a different tool. With the TFWW mortisers, I can chop a 1/4" wide, 3/4" deep mortise in 3 passes, without hitting it very hard at all.

[Mike Cutler]

I am going to be attending a class to build a shaker clock using nothing but hand tools, and I need to get a mortise chisel. Nice used ones are hard to come by and nearly as much as new ones. I have looked and read and studied and researched and have narrowed the choices down to two; the Ray Iles from TFWW and the Lie Nielsen. I don't like the Sorby or the Two Cherries offerings(busted a Sorby last week), and the japanese tools don't interest me either. Any help on the pros and cons of the two would be great! Of course, if I have missed something I should look at, please advise! Thanks

Brad

Brad.
What broke on the Sorby's? I just got 4 Sorby sash chisels for Christmas.

Oh, and Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

[Michael Fross]

Brad,
The Ray Isles, from TFWW, are the very best, in my opinion. I have not used the LN mortising chisels, but from the photographs, the LN is a different tool. With the TFWW mortisers, I can chop a 1/4" wide, 3/4" deep mortise in 3 passes, without hitting it very hard at all.

Hello Alan. What do you mean by LN being a different tool? Can you elaborate? I'm also looking at getting a 3/8" mortising chisel and have been looking at the same two items.

Thanks.

Michael

[Alan Turner]

Michael,
Here is my reasoning. The Steel is D-2 in the English version, which is a bit tougher for this work than the A-2. The tang and bolster is a better design, IMHO. The grind is different as well. Note the primary bevel at 20 deg. on the Isles, versus the 30 deg. on the LN. The last 1/8" or so on the Isles is at 30 or 35 deg. But the overall thinner approach allows the chisel to be driven to a greater depth with each blow. The large, oval handle on the Isles is awfully comfortable for heavy work. These are my thoughts, but this is really a personal opinion sort of thing. You won't go wrong with either brand.

[Brad Woods]

Brad.
What broke on the Sorby's? I just got 4 Sorby sash chisels for Christmas.

Oh, and Welcome to Sawmill Creek.

Mike,

The chisel bent right where it tapers before meeting the ferrule. The tang then pulled out of the handle as I was levering out some waste. In all fairness, it wasn't the sorby sash mortisers which seem to be a better chisel than the one I used. It looks like the "heavy duty" chisel, but it sure didn't seem to work that way.

Thanks for the replys to everyone. Has anyone used the Lie Nielsen chisel? I've been reading some reviews of the Iles chisels that say they are a pain to sharpen, and I want to work with my tools, not fight them. Thanks again.

Brad

[Andrew Homan]

Has anyone used the Lie Nielsen chisel?

I have a 1/4" LN mortise chisel, and it compares favorably to an antique sash mortise chisel that I also have. I also have a 1/2" pigsticker (not a RI, an antique). They are two totally different animals! At any rate, I don't have the confidence or experience to really "wail" on a mortise chisel like some describe the use of the RI pigstickers, so for my (admittedly slow and delicate) approach, the LN is very nice.
Cheers,
Andy

[Hank Knight]

Brad,

As several posters have said, the LN mortise chisels are "sash mortise" chisels. They are intended for lighter mortising tasks. The Iles oval bolstered mortise chisels ("pig stickers") are heavier duty chisels. While they are certainly capable of cutting mortises in light applications, they are designed for heavier use. I don't know that I can pinpoint a demarcation line between "light" and "heavy" mortising work, but it sounds like your shaker clock project would fall into what I would consider "light" work. A LN chisel would probably work very well for your project. An Iles chisel would also do the job and serve you well in heavier applications where a LN would find the going difficult. I think your choice boils down to a consideration of what kind of work you think you will doing with the chisel in the future. If you are going to stick with smaller projects, the LN would be the ticket. If you're interested in getting onto larger carcase work or other, more robust applications, you might want to consider the Iles OBM chisel. Also, there's no rule that says you have to limit yourself to one mortise chisel.

My thoughts.

Hank

[Ken Bryant]

I have the LNs, and I also have a set of Sorby registered mortise chisels. The Sorbys, when used on fairly hefty mortises, BEND at the narrow part joining blade to tang. Bummer! (Someone will know what that part is called...) The LNs have so far been trouble-free. I still covet the TFWWs...

[Bob Smalser]

Brad,
The Ray Isles, from TFWW, are the very best, in my opinion. I have not used the LN mortising chisels, but from the photographs, the LN is a different tool. With the TFWW mortisers, I can chop a 1/4" wide, 3/4" deep mortise in 3 passes, without hitting it very hard at all.

What the pigstickers are in efficiency to sash chisels, the "millwright", "deck" or "framing" chisels (pick your favorite name) are to the pigstickers. Size is power, and you can put any bevel you like on a thick chisel.



That said, the smaller flavors of these on the left chop 1/8 and 1/4 mortises with the same degree of control as smaller chisels, only with more speed.

No danger of bending these in normal use, either. Made in 1/8 thru 1" and available on Ebay.

[Andrew Homan]

That said, the smaller flavors of these on the left chop 1/8 and 1/4 mortises with the same degree of control as smaller chisels, only with more speed.

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the pics. How do you tell the difference between the smaller millwright's chisels (1/8 and 1/4 in the pic) and "sash" mortise chisels? I think that I have some of these but didn't know what they were.
-Andy

[Bob Smalser]

Hi Bob,
Thanks for the pics. How do you tell the difference between the smaller millwright's chisels (1/8 and 1/4 in the pic) and "sash" mortise chisels? I think that I have some of these but didn't know what they were.
-Andy

Longer and with hooped handles, although the 8th-inchers didn't always have, and certainly didn't need, hoops.

The 1/8" on the left is around 12" long. You can only hit a chisel so hard and retain precision, so in some ways, more strength is overkill. While these long chisels are easier to hold plumb, the real advantage of length is scraping the bottom of the mortise, where another 8th to a quarter depth or more can be achieved just by better leverage. While normally you scrape just to square up the bottom, these longer chisels scrape with so much more power, it can save an entire chopping sequence.

To scrape, you index the chisel's bevel against the shoulder, and tap it home with the mallet....



...then pull the chisel edge over the bottom of the mortise, using the bevel as a fulcrum:



Longer, sturdier chisels provide tremendous leverage for that action:



I had a couple of these in larger sizes of 3/4 and up I inherited, but never a set, and I bought and used Japanese mortise chisels for a long time for my 1/4 3/8 and 1/2, and a Butcher pigsticker in around 5/8. Once Ebay came along and I could flesh out my millwright set, I sold off all the other mortise chisels. To me, there is simply no comparison in power and speed.

[Andrew Homan]

Once Ebay came along and I could flesh out my millwright set, I sold off all the other mortise chisels. To me, there is simply no comparison in power and speed.

This is interesting. I've been looking around here (Northwestern VT) at my "old tool" sources, trying to find "pigsticker" style mortise chisels. For every one pigsticker there seem to be ten of what you have described as "millwright" chisels. Because of the narrower profile, I had assumed that these were not for "heavy duty" use -- but I bow to your experience. Now I'm finding it interesting that it seems to have been the chisel of choice in the pre-power tool past of this area of wooden houses and barns. Next time I peruse my local old-tool pusher's boxes of chisels, I'll be looking at these with new lenses! (And they appear to be easier to re-handle than pigstickers!). Thanks for taking the time to write about the millwright chisels.
-Andy

[James Mittlefehldt]

Brad I suspect the Sorby heavy duty types would not be much better as most places I attend of late regarding hand woodworking indicate the Sorby's quality is very spotty at best.

I use the Hirsch mortiseing chisels which I believe are virtually the same as the Two Cherries, and find them to be fine, they are a really massive chisel, the 1/8 is an inch longer than Bob's Millwright's chisel.

I have wailed away on them and found them to be up to the job, but wondered what your objection was, I do concede they are rather ugly.

[Greg Cole]

James,
I have a Hirsch mortise chisel set. After much homework and agonizing over the decision, I opted for the Hirsch after reading they are in fact made in the same factory in Germany. The only difference is supposed to be in the label on the handle.
My only very minor unfavorable comment about any chisel with a round handle is that they can roll on you if you aren't prudent about where you set it down. But I have rathe big hands and the big round handles fit me better that most oval handles.

Greg

Another $0.02 conribution from a Creek Newbie