chisels, again

[Ken Werner]

I've done the search, and have looked at previous threads, but here we go again...

Can anyone who has experience with both compare LN with Ashley Iles bench chisels? I'm getting ready to upgrade from my 1980s ash handled Marples, and am seeking wisdom in the choice.

Many thanks,
Ken

[Jim Becker]

I own the Ashley Iles and have fondled the L-Ns that Robert Tarr owns. Both are really nice products. I bought my chisels "in person" at ToolsForWorkingWood.com in NYC--Robert and I were fortunate to get out of a business meeting early enough to shoot over and visit Joel & company in person at the time. I played with both handle formats available for the AIs and a couple other brands. The longer handled AI felt the best in my hand both from a size standpoint and from the smooth, rounded design. (Yea, they can roll, but that's just something to be careful with) The handles with flat surfaces just didn't work for me. The gist of all this is if you can get the opportunity to actually hold the tools you are considering, it will better help you choose what should be in your shop. Perhaps there are folks in your area or within reasonable distance of you to check them out...

[Ken Werner]

Good advice, Jim, but I'm kind of in the middle of nowhere.

Do you know if the AIs are made of A2, like the LNs? If not, do the edges hold up well, say, better than the Marples I'm used to? [They get dull cutting one set of pins]

Thanks,
Ken

[Mark Singer]

I think Jim gave you excellent advice! The Ln's should be at a Woodcraft store if there is one near you... Chisels are a personal preference kind of decision and you may end up with more than one set... Depending on the task , I pull my selection out on the bench .... different job , different chisels. In the very hard woods, I have been banging on even the LN's and many Japanese don't hold an edge long...I have a few that do....the Blue Steel Japanese, don't seem phased much by it...but they are harder to sharpen

[Mark Singer]

Good advice, Jim, but I'm kind of in the middle of nowhere.

Do you know if the AIs are made of A2, like the LNs? If not, do the edges hold up well, say, better than the Marples I'm used to? [They get dull cutting one set of pins]

Thanks,
Ken

Ken,
If you are just using them for dovetails and in 1/2" material as opposed to carcass joint work, the Blue Spruce might be the best choice . Then save the marples for general bench work...Just a thought
http://www.thebestthings.com/newtool...ce_chisels.htm

[Gary Curtis]

Woodworking magazine did a torture test on chisels 18 months ago. Lie Nielsen wasn't available then, so the top tool was the Ashley Isles. Sorby and Marples came in second. They tested sharpness, wood penetration and edge retention.

I took a different route. I bought 5 sets of chisels made in the 1940s and 30's from a guy in London. On eBay. He asserted that the Sheffield steel in those years was the highest grade ever made, and that steel deteriorated in quality afterward.

I don't thing A-2 was in the equation at that time.

Gary Curtis

[Mike Henderson]

He asserted that the Sheffield steel in those years was the highest grade ever made, and that steel deteriorated in quality afterward. Gary Curtis

That, of course, is not true. Steel has been made the same way since the early 1900's - the basic open hearth furnace (and now some more modern techniques). What's actually happened is that steel is a LOT better today because steel makers have gained much better control over the process than they had in the past. In about the 60's the Japanese began shipping steel to the United States that was much better than that made in the US (for the same grade). The Americans didn't worry about the early shipments because they thought the Japanese were shipping premium steel as lower grade steel in order to gain market share. But the Japanese had just gained better process control and could produce better steel. Since that time, the quality of steel has improved even more.

There's no truth to the belief that our ancestors made better steel and today's steel makers are chumps. The truth is that a lot of the steel made by our ancestors was very bad. What has happened is that only the best has survived. The bad steel was scrapped long ago and remelted. So there is some truth that an old plane blade (or an old chisel) may have very good steel, but it's just because of survival of the fittest, not because our steelmaking ancestors could make great steel.

Mike

[Ken Werner]

I've thought about the Blue Spruce chisels, Mark, and they do look very very nice. I do want whatever chisels I buy to serve both for my DTs and general bench work. Given the small size of the Blue Spruce, I'm hesitant to commit that expense for the planned usage.
Thanks for your input, I enjoy your posts.
Ken

[Mike Brady]

Coincidently, the two chisel sets that I have are L-N and Ashley Isles. I have kept them both because they are really very different in feel and even purpose. It may be hard to discern from ads but these chisels are quite different in size...the L-N's being smaller than most and the
Ashley Isles with the Standard pattern handle being longer than most. In my use, the L-Ns are the finess tools and the AI's are frequently struck with a mallet. L-N are superior for fine work such as dovetails. I have thought of getting the same graduated size handles for the L-N's that they use on their mortise chisels, so that a wider blade would have a correspondingly longer handle. Again, all of the AI's are quite long and a little ungainly, if I do say so. One nice feature are the extra long paring handles that L-N offers. These can be changed out as needed thanks to the socket design.

Both makers offer excellent steel, which is essential. I have had no problems with either taking or holding a fine edge. The topside of the Ashley Isles blades have been polished over and are a rather flat profile. The L-N's have a finely machined tapered profile that reflects the quality that we have come to expect from Maine.

[Gary Curtis]

Mike, I'll have to get home and test some of my chisels, old against the new. I have a few Ashley Isles that are new, and a few of those antique babies from London. As well as some used American brands such as Greenlee, Stanley and such.

What you say about steel makes sense. Last january, I stopped off at the workshop of Ron Hock and got a lecure on sharpening, steel, tool marketing in the modern world. His current source for plane irons is France. His American source dried up a few years ago.

He thinks you can get his O1 irons sharper than the A-2. For whatever that opinion is worth. The comment about Sheffield steel, old vs. newer, comes not from an expert. And I don't profess to one either.

I bought those old chisels for about $4 each, all 25, and then got matching Boxwood handles in the London Pattern so they wouldn't roll of the bench. They sure look pretty, and the history behind them comforts me in those hours when my lack of skills in the shop makes me feel puny.

Gary Curtis

[Ken Werner]

Mike B., your comments are just what I am looking for - from someone who has experienced both sets. Can I ask why you feel the LN are superior for fine work? Does the topside of the AIs change how they function? I think if both sets sold for the same price, I'd have an easier time choosing, but at more than $100 more dear, I'm trying hard to determine if there is a good reason to go with LN, beyond rep and product loyalty. [I have a couple of LN block planes, and they are wonderful]

[Andrew Homan]

Does the topside of the AIs change how they function?

Don't forget that you can also get shorter handles for the AIs -- they are actually available in several handle styles, depending on the vendor. I got one from Tools from Working Wood (1/4" with short handle) and was happily using it just this morning.
-Andy

[Michael Fross]

Hello Ken,

I don't have both sets, but do have the LN bevel edge chisels. I have been very happy with them. They are smaller than most I have used and very well balanced.

One of my main compaints with chisels (and I love chisels) are their height. I'm a big guy with big hands, but I just didn't like really long chisels. They just seemed harder to use, top heavy, and unwieldly.

In fact, I just stopped my my local Woodcraft today to look at their mortise chisels. Ended up walking out with the LN set (again).

I wish I had more experience with the AIs as I've heard they are well made and a pleasure to use. I've just no experience, my my gut tells me that I would not like their height.

I know it's hard if you don't live near places you can get a feel of the tool itself prior to purchase. I've made quite a few "on faith" purchased from Veritas and been very happy. But of course my friends at the creek really helped out before I pulled the trigger.

One idea is that the woodworking shows usually have LN present, so if there is a show near you and if you are not in a rush, that might be an option.

Best of luck and be sure to let us know which way you fell and your results!

Michael

[Martin Shupe]

I have the LN chisels, and use them for dovetails. I have large hands, and I like the feel and balance of the LN chisels.

I would suggest you go somewhere where you can hold a LN chisel in your hands. If you like the feel, buy them. If you don't, buy the AI's.

I hit my chisels hard while dovetailing, and also pare with them when cleaning out half blind dovetails. IMHO, the LN's do both well.

I have never touched an AI, but I am very, very pleased with my LN's.

[Ken Werner]

Hi again, Mark.
I am giving the blue spruce chisels more thought. Your post with the photo of them next to the LN is really making me pause. I'm getting the feeling that the AIs are in a different class than the LNs and the BSs.
Ken