Am I crazy - new shaper

[Tom Jones III]

I was at the store with LOML buying a roundover bit so I can make bullnose for stair treads. She is poking around waiting for me to finish up and she asks what is this machine? She is standing in front of a Steel City 3 HP shaper.
http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pr...=11&tool=48105
I explain what it is used for and she then she says "Don't you need one?" So of course I tell her no, my homemade router table works just fine. She proceeds to tell me that since we are saving at least $3,000 by doing the stairs ourselves and the shaper is only $1,100 then shouldn't I get it!!!

So that gets me thinking, why doesn't someone sell a router table that is the same quality as a shaper? I think I would pay a lot of money for a router table setup that was as nice as that shaper setup. I've read all the shaper vs. router threads, is maybe the answer that if you want a router table setup as nice as a shaper then you may as well buy a shaper?

[Jim Becker]

Be sure to buy the LOYL some roses today...

[Frank Snyder]

Tom - I was on the fence as to get a new router table or a shaper. I ended up getting JessEm's Master-Lift-Excel with the Miter-Slide and I couldn't be happier. I mounted a PC7518 underneath and it feels more like a shaper. I think another SMC member here actually mounted a power feeder on his. I prefer router bits for the lower cost, large selection and accessibility to bits. Plus, I already had a healty collection of Amana router bits. Bit changes with this setup is a breeze and coping end profiles with the miter-slide is as easy it gets since the slide is always 90 degrees to the fence. The dual-DC ports also do a great job. I think the whole package with router was less than $2K. I just thought the router table was more versatile for my small shop than a shaper.

[Chris Rosenberger]

ARE YOU NUTS!!!!!!! Your wife offers to let you get a tool and you say no.
I have shapers & router tables. I use the shapers the most. I do woodworking for a living & I like shaper cutters better than router bits. There are times when I need the router table for a job so that is why I have them.
With the router lifts & fences that are now out there, it is east to build a router table as good as a shaper. But you will be spending as much or more money than a good shaper will cost.

[Jim Becker]

Actually, having both is the ideal world...someday I'll do the shaper thing. In the mean time, my PC7518 in my table does a bang-up job.

[Paul Greathouse]

Be sure to buy the LOYL some roses today...

Jim, I'm sure they love us when they OK a new tool purchase, but I would bet that "Visions of Future Projects Built for Them" has some bearing on their decision. I agree with Jim though, Go Ahead and get her the roses, it will only help reinforce future "YES" decisions.

[Pete Brown]

I don't own a shaper, but I'd love to have one.

Shapers can usually take much larger profiles. In some instances, you can also stack profiles to do large moldings all at once.

You can also get shaper cutters custom ground to meet a profile you want.

Then of course there's the question of power, tilting (for tilting shapers), stability, accuracy (most shapers will be more square to the table than most routers) and noise. As I understand it, shapers tend to be a lot quieter than routers. The only thing louder than my routers is my Dewalt planer, but it's a good contest ;-)
Pete

[Travis Porter]

Last year, I acquired the Jessem Mast-r-lift, mast-r-top, and mast-r-fence and put a PC 7518 in it. For my birthday the LOML bought me a Delta 3 HP shaper.

I use the router table a lot, but the raw power of a shaper blows the router table away. With the shaper, I can raise a panel in a single pass. Although the router is advertised as 3 HP, the shaper is 3 HP and requires 220 volts. A universal motor compared to an induction motor.

I would have never believed the difference until I tried it. Three wing raised panel cutters are a lot smoother (to me) than the router.

The perfect world is to have both. The 3 HP shaper is the next step up from the router table to me. It is like moving up from a cabinet saw to a slider. You can do everything with a cabinet saw that you can with a slider, it is just easier to do with a true slider.

[Tom Jones III]

Tom - I was on the fence as to get a new router table or a shaper. I ended up getting JessEm's Master-Lift-Excel with the Miter-Slide and I couldn't be happier. ... I prefer router bits ... I think the whole package with router was less than $2K. ...

Frank and Travis are saying similar things and many people on earlier shaper vs. router threads had similar opinions. I just checked Amazon and a total Jessem setup ($800+) and a big router ($200+) is almost exactly the same price as that Steel City shaper. The shaper comes with an adaptor for router bits although rpm is limited to 10k.

[Rich Bay]

I got one of the Steel City Shapers just before the first of the year. I also have a Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP Router in a cast iron top Grizzley table. The fence system I have on the router table is one I made - not real fancy but functional.

Without question the shaper is an easier tool to use than my router table.

I have primarily used router bits in the shaper and I really haven't seen any problem caused by the 10K limit. The accuracy of the shaper fence and the bit height adjustment make it a pleasure to use.

[Frank Snyder]

Tom - If you can get a decent shaper for $1100, I say go for it. The cast iron top is a plus and as long as it has a decent fence, I'm sure you'll be happy. I just liked all of the features on the JessEm and it did everything I wanted it to do, so it was good match. It is an expensive setup for a router table (especially when you can make your own), so spending $1200 on a router table vs. a shaper becomes a real conundrum. I guess it just boils down to what RPM's you need for the work you do. If you've never used a shaper before, I'd recommend finding someone close to you who has one so you can get a feel for them before you buy one. I knew this one guy who bought a shaper and returned it because it scared him . This same guy uses panel raising blades on his table saw, and that doesn't scare him? To each his own I guess...

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Tom, I have a 3 HP shaper, and also went through the shaper/router table issue a couple of years ago. After buying a $300 router and a $1000 table (or whatever combination), you esentially own an upside down blender in a particle board box. I bought the shaper, and now use the router for what it was designed for.

The router is a great hand held tool, however in my opinion it ends there, period.

The shaper has many times the power, is much smoother, has a better fence/tool guard and much better dust collection.

The shaper has reversible spindle rotation so you can go with the grain by inverting the cutter and reversing spindle rotation, try that with a router.

The shaper has a cast iron top that will accomodate a power feeder, resulting in greater safety, and higher quality machining. I don't think my fingers care whether a shaper cuts them off, or a router, either will do the trick. A shaper with larger diameter cutters that has better cutting geometry actually produce less kickbacks than a router bit with poorer geometry, that in combination with a feeder and/or suitable jigs will keep your fingers safe and sound.

A shaper will take High Speed steel knives in a cutterhead, for use on solid wood. Once you've seen the difference in the quality of finish, you'll never go back to carbide for solid wood edge cutting.

The shaper is quieter, smoother and the cutters last far longer than an equivalent router bit, and if you decide to run thousands of feet of material, the cutters can be sharpened many times.

Regards, Rod.

["Gary Brewer"]

Hi Tom: I went through this a couple of years ago (maybe three)and found that for me that the cost of a shaper really was not significantly different from the cost of a high quality router table set-up. I found a Delta 3hp platinum edition shaper with the deluxe fence, 3/4" spindle, router spindle, two cast iron wings, a delta mobile base, and free shipping all for about $200 more than I was going to spend for the router table setup. The quality of the cast iron top, a rock sturdy base, the the ease and accuracy to raise and lower the spindle was too much for me to ignore. I have used router bits with it with no problem. I have recently bought a Freud raised panel set which I will use in the shaper. I am also going to put a stock feeder on it. Probably both is the best set up and some day I probably buy a simple router table. The problem is when you shoot for a high quality router table setup it becomes very expensive, everything is alacart (sp?) and I think that is why it costs alot. Though probably most beople buy a router table setup and then progress from there which is seems reasonable to me. I just didn't follow that path.
FWIW
Gary

[Don Bullock]

Tom,
First of all, do as Jim suggests and get her something special and also take her to dinner.

Second, go back and buy the shaper. Sure, as suggested, she may come up with a "to do list" project, but you'll have another super tool to make things that you want to make.

I just recently had LOML tell me to go ahead and buy a bench top drill press and now I'm hoping she'll say the same about a mortiser.

[Randy Johnson]

I have both a router table and a shaper.
The router table is a homade affair with a PC plunge router. It's great for small jobs but has its limitations.
The shaper is a 3hp Powermatic 25A. You don't see these real often and I'm inclined to believe the Steel City is probably a better machine. I can do anything on the shaper that can be done on the router table plus a great deal more. I have never noticed a problem using router bits in the shaper as far as the cut goes. On my machine the changing of router bits can be a real pain because sometimes the collet seems like it's welded in there. This problem doesn't happen when I'm using spindels. I have partly solved the problem of pricey shaper cutters by using a cutterhead and inserts. The cutterhead I have was made by CMT but I think they have discontinued making both the head and inserts. The good news is that Amana inserts are supposed to work with the cutterhead I have. You can cut some profiles with this system that you can't even dream of with a router table.