Boards twisting and uneven after jointing

[Tim Malyszko]

I'm fairly new to using a jointer and have been having some real issues with my Ridgid Jointer this week when face jointing. Just about every board I run over it becomes twisted.

Here is a description of what is happening:

I make a 1st pass and it almost always results in the same thing

• Material taken off on the infeed end furthest away from the fence
• Nothing taken off of the infeed end closest to the fence - the no material varies about 1-3 inches out from the fence.
• no contact made with knives when the board extends about 2-2.5 onto the outfeed table.
• occassionally some contact made with knives at the rear of the board.
• The majority of material is taken off on the end furthest away from the fence with no material being taken off of the side closest to the fence.

As I make more and more passes, it gets worse and the board is now tapered with the thin end at the infeed side and the thicker end at the outfeed side.

I've checked that the knives are aligned with the outfeed table and that is okay. The fence is parallel with the infeed/outfeed table and when the infeed table is parallel with the outfeed table. This was all done with a straight edge and a sqare (I may be buying a new straight edge and square as I accidently broke the good ones 2 weeks ago in the cold and the ones I used here were cheapos).

This is really becoming frustrating because I didn't have this problem a month ago. It seems like something changed.

The boards I'm using are relatively flat to start off with so I'm pretty sure it's not the material. I tried cherry, poplar and soft maple and am seeing the same results with all of them. They start out as 4/4 boards, but are getting as thin as 2/4 before I toss them aside and start over. I'm now at the point just using poplar because I'm tired of ruining good boards.

I think the twisting is coming from me flipping the board end-to-end and then jointing from the opposite end, but I'm not certain.

When I'm feeding the boards, I keep the feed rate relatively consistent and once I get about 1 foot of the board on the outfeed table, I move my downward pressure onto the outfeed table and feed it from there. Am I doing something wrong there?

If you have any good resources to tune up jointers, please pass them along. I have to get this resolved since I cannot do anything with all the rough lumber until it's properly jointed.

Thanks for all the help.

[Kyle Kraft]

Whenever I face joint a board, I pick the direction of feed and stick with it until the face is flat. Perhaps the flipping end for end is the problem.

[Tim Malyszko]

Whenever I face joint a board, I pick the direction of feed and stick with it until the face is flat. Perhaps the flipping end for end is the problem.

I'm fairly certain that's the issue with the twisting, but I cannot figure out why I'm getting an inconsistent amount taken off over the width of the board.

[Quesne Ouaques]

If you have any good resources to tune up jointers, please pass them along. I have to get this resolved since I cannot do anything with all the rough lumber until it's properly jointed.

There are some excellent jointer (and other power tool) set-up and tune-up articles on the Taunton FineWoodworking.com website. I would be happy to send you a few of them for your reference if you are not yet a member.

[Mike Parzych]

Is the fence at a true 90 degrees from the infeed/outfeed tables? And are the knives 90 degrees from the back fence? I don't know how the knives could get out of the 90 degree alignment to the fence, but maybe that's the case.

And how much pressure are you putting on the infeed end when you start. Generally you only need enough keep the board down on the tables, and not hopping up and down. Too much pressure on the leading edge of the board could be the problem.

I've gat a Rigid too. There's a definite learning curve on good jointing, but the machine is pretty good once I got technique down.

[David Giles]

Tim, either you have some really bad reaction wood (not likely) or your machine is misaligned. Even bad technique shouldn't cause the problems that you are facing. Really, how hard is it to hold a board flat against the table shifting the pressure from the infeed to the outfeed table.

Have you been using dial indicators to set the knife height or those aluminum setup blocks?

Do your tables move under pressure? Is the cutter head stable? Are the knives tightly fastened? I had one wriggle loose once and play havoc with the cut. Get a 4ft straight edge or level and check those tables again. And again. The two tables should be perfectly level and coplaner. Check the height of the edges next to the cutterhead. Get those edges within a couple thousandth across the width. Now check each knife height at TDC. They should be within 0.002 across the table width. You will need a dial indicator or better setup kit.

The most likely cause is that the knife height is wrong or variable. Or the outfeed table is out of whack with the infeed table. I've got some links or pdf files on jointer setup if you need them.

[Mike Cutler]

Tim.

Your method should work. I am going to assume that by "flipping" you are rotating the board 180 degrees and not flipping it over and registering it to the fence on the same edge. You can only joint one face.

Here are a few suggestions to help you isolate tthe problem;

Set the board on the bench, or the flattest surface that you have. The board will rock back and forth on two opposing corners. Mark those corners with chalk. Really color them in. Now make diagonals lines with chalk across the face of the board, and running the entire length. What this will do is let you know where your cutterhead is engaging the material.
One more thing to do is scribe the edges of the board with a line that is referenced to the flat surface. This is a visual reference to let you know when the jointing is not going well.

When the material is placed on the jointer. The corners that you colored with chalk should be the points of contact on the cutter head. Don't apply pressure to the middle of the board. You are trying to get the board to "float" over the cutter head and remove the chalk from the corners only.

After a pass over the cutterhead flip the board over and see where the cutter head is removing material. It should be at the chalked corners only. Rechalk the corners and go again.

One "trick" I have found that works very well is to start the process with a hand plane and plane those high corners down to the point that the board doesn't rock any longer. It makes the material a bit more stable on the jointer. Just a suggestion

Good luck.

Mike

[Jake Helmboldt]

regardless of the outcome on your problems, flipping the board end-for-end isn't good practice since you are jointing against the grain in one direction.

[Tim Malyszko]

Tim.

Your method should work. I am going to assume that by "flipping" you are rotating the board 180 degrees and not flipping it over and registering it to the fence on the same edge. You can only joint one face.

That's exactly what I am doing.

Here are a few suggestions to help you isolate tthe problem;

Set the board on the bench, or the flattest surface that you have. The board will rock back and forth on two opposing corners. Mark those corners with chalk. Really color them in. Now make diagonals lines with chalk across the face of the board, and running the entire length. What this will do is let you know where your cutterhead is engaging the material.
One more thing to do is scribe the edges of the board with a line that is referenced to the flat surface. This is a visual reference to let you know when the jointing is not going well.

When the material is placed on the jointer. The corners that you colored with chalk should be the points of contact on the cutter head. Don't apply pressure to the middle of the board. You are trying to get the board to "float" over the cutter head and remove the chalk from the corners only.

After a pass over the cutterhead flip the board over and see where the cutter head is removing material. It should be at the chalked corners only. Rechalk the corners and go again.

One "trick" I have found that works very well is to start the process with a hand plane and plane those high corners down to the point that the board doesn't rock any longer. It makes the material a bit more stable on the jointer. Just a suggestion

Good luck.

Mike

Thanks for the tips. I'll give them a try tonight. I'm also stopping by Woodcfaft to pick up a new precision square and straight edge just to be certain everythings in alignment - I need new one's anyway.

Thanks again.

[Brian Thomas]

Tim,

Not sure if knife alignment is the problem, but if it is there's a good video on using a dial indicator to align jointer knives here: http://www.ts-aligner.com/ They show how it's done using their tool, but I was able to make a simple holder for the dial indicator out of some scrap oak.

I consider myself a beginning woodworker and have struggled a bit with tool alignment. I was able to get good results using this method - so if I can do it anyone can.

Good luck - I can relate to your frustration.

Brian

[Dan Forman]

Here is an excellent free tutorial on jointer set-up.

http://woodworking.homeip.net/wood/T.../Jointers.html

Dan

[jim mckee]

How do you stand with the jointer problem?
jim

[Walter Yamamoto]

The fact that more meat is taken off from the "outside" would seem to be a problem of either the cutter head, the knives, or both being slightly out of alignment left to right compared to the outfeed and/or infeed table.

Another thing is that I have found that a jointer actually works best when the outfeed is SLIGHTLY (ever so slightly) lower than the blade. I read it somewhere a long time ago and have found this to be excellent advice.

[Tim Malyszko]

Woo Hoo!!! I fixed it thanks to everyone's help. After reading all the links and suggestions, I was able to correct the problem.

The first thing I did was head over to Woodcraft and purchase a new Engineers Precision Square and Straight Edge since I did not trust the accuracy of the ones I was using. The straight edge was the Pinnacle SERX24 from Woodcraft (http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=20044) and the Engineers Square was a GROZ model the manager recommended. In addition, I picked up the Jointer Pal W1211 Magnetic Jointer Jig to check and set up the knives.

Second, using the straight edge, I checked the fence, outfeed table and infeed table for any defects or warping and all were dead-on flat.

Third, I checked the fence relative to the infeed/outfeed tables using my new Engineer's Square, and sure enough, there was about a 1/16" gap at the of the fence, so I re-aligned the fence.

Fourth, I used 2 framing squares to check that the infeed/outfeed tables were co-planer with one another and that checked out okay.

Finally, I used the Jointer Pal Magnetic jig to check the blade alignment relative to the outfeed table and sure enough, the knives were out of alignment. I pulled all the knives, cleaned them, and used the jig to re-align the knives.

After tightening everything up, I prep'd 2 48" long, 5 7/8" wide poplar boards. With the table set at 1/32" the first one required 3 passes over the jointer, thus only removing 3/32" from the board surface. The second board required only 2 passes. I checked each one on the table saw cast iron table for flatness and there were no signs of twisting.

As a final check, I laid the jointed faces on top of one another and they were so dead on flat, I could have put a little glue on them and with some clamping pressure, turn the 2 4/4 boards into 1 8/4 board with no seam showing.

So, there were 2 issues going on here:

1. The fence was not sitting at 90 degrees to the infeed/outfeed table.
2. The jointer knives were out of alignment.

Thanks again for all the advice and help. I'm glad this happened because I now really understand the jointer.

By the way, does anyone know if the Pinnicle Straight Edge I purchased is the same one that can be found under the Woodpecker's name? They look very similar except for their color.

[Pete Brown]

By the way, does anyone know if the Pinnicle Straight Edge I purchased is the same one that can be found under the Woodpecker's name? They look very similar except for their color.

Yep, all that black stuff that looks like WP and is sold as Woodcraft is manufactured by WP. I checked iwth them some time ago as I was curious if it was a knock-off or the real thing.

Congrats on getting everything sorted out

Pete