How about putting your hand in your pockets

[Lester Hoste]

John

What is a decent contribution I haven't seen an amount yet. Maybe thats
stopping membership.

[Greg Funk]

Whether someone contributes or not is a personal decision best left that way.

Perhaps, but without some encouragement once in a while there clearly aren't enough people making the decision to contribute.

I don't see any problem with Ken or others bringing up the subject of funding the site during the couse of the year. I suspect there are lots of individuals who join during the year and who just aren't aware that the site is self funded until the annual fund drive happens.

Greg

[Charles McKinley]

Hi Lester,

During the fund drive in November the amount asked for was $6.00 (six dollars.) There is a lot of complaining during the fund drive and the HARD working volunteers that run SMC try to limit fund raising to once a year. You will see some members have reminders in their sig lines and there is a DONATE link in the top right of each page in the blue bar.

Welcome to the Creek!

[Don Bullock]

Keith - how about a $$$ for the new battery backup? If we know how much we are talking about to purchase it, we may be able to get it done earlier than the end of the year.

Nancy

Good idea Nancy.

As for the original post, as a newbee myself, I think it's great to remind people that there are ways to contribute, but it's not required. I can't begin to explain how important this place has been to me. Since I'm a person who doesn't hesitate to join in with my written contributions, sending in my $6 was an easy decision. I do, however, remember times when that would have not been possible. I think that it is great that anyone can participate freely here.

[Todd Burch]

I've contributed a few times in the past. I've no issue with it.

My only comment on the matter is why not make it public what the costs are and what a reasonable contribution expectation / desire / need is.

First, we'll have to assume that not all 15,000+ members are going to contribute. If we use the 80/20 rule, 80% won't contribute, and that leaves the other 20%, or about 3,000 members to keep the boat afloat. (3000 is probably much higher that the count of actual controbutors - but I'm guessing here - Keith and Company are the only ones who know that - maybe a few others.)

So, then, what does it cost for yearly hosting, a new server every three years, yearly upkeep, software updates, backup media, possible redundant harware and connection charges? Obvioulsy a few thousand dollars.

Last year, if I remember correctly, I think I contributed $6. Maybe the same in 2005. I've bought a hat too. I think I visited these forums a couple dozen times the whole year in all of 2006. Did I cover my share? Did I cover 100 people's share? How am I supposed to know?

Perhaps this information is somewhere public, but if it were public, I would have expected Keith to link to it in a thread like this.

My biggest unknown is how much I am, or would, over contribute. I don't mind forking up some green for my fair share to keep the community afloat - but I am not interested in buying property for Keith (and - I certainly am not implying ANY money is going for anything ELSE but SMC), but without the fiduciary info, I cannot assume anything. I know Keith - I've even met him. Super nice guy. But, I don't manage his checkbook. And, conversely, Keith would not assign to me fund management for SMC. That's just the way it works.

Todd

[Ted Miller]

Todd, Excellent post, that would be a great idea. Lets us all know exactlly what it costs to keep this board up and running for the whole year. I have ran and owned forums in my day and they did not cost much but they did carry the bandwidth and were not as large as this board. Also on my board I had an area in which you had to pay in order to view and open pics. It was only $5.00 and I did not hear one single complaint and that money went towards a dedicated server service...

[Keith Outten]

I did post the results of our fund drive at the end of November or first of December, the thread is still in our archives. The total was in the neighborhod of $8,700.00 with just over 500 people donating.

I am hesitant to provide a regular accounting since SMC is owned by my sign company. My company books aren't public information which most would agree is a private matter. In order to protect my family's personal assets SMC has to be owned by a company, it is just to big a personal risk running an open forum.

Basically we break even every year. If there are any funds left at the end of the year I purchase software, hardware or use whats left to order hats. This way there is no profit to pay taxes on...but that hasn't been a problem yet
Should there be a substantial amount of money left over we would give Aaron a bonus check for serving as our System Administrator, the amount of money he is paid is miniscule, about 300 dollars per month. I do feel strongly that Aaron deserves to be paid something for his effort and the responsibility he has here.

The Creek isn't a for profit venture. Considering the huge amount of hours we must spend every day approving new registrations, answering email, Private Messages and the behind the scenes stuff like keeping the crackers and trolls at bay you have to enjoy running a forum because it is a time consuming job. The Creek runs 24 hours per day, seven days per week and needs constant attention. I often find myself working late at night in my shop in an effort to get my days work done because it took several hours after supper to catch up with SMC. Vacations are almost impossible to schedule, the server is in my shop office and if it goes down and must be hard booted it would be down for days if I was gone.

If it was about money I would take the easy road and go with advertising support. Given the number of hits we receive we could easilly collect over $20,000.00 per year running ads so I lose a boat load of money every year. When Hampton Roads Online went out of business in October of 2005 I had to assume the company debt in order to acquire ownership of SMC so I make monthly payments to the bank for the pleasure of owning a public forum that doesn't make money. I expect in two more years it will be mine

If you subscribe to a magazine you get a magazine every month and you pay a lot more than 50 cents. If The Creek is worth 50 cents to an individual great, if not well so be it. SMC is basically an expensive hobby for Jackie and I, we don't realize any profit from owning or operating this Forum even though we could. I make my living making signs.

SawMill Creek is a real Community just like any other and is important to a lot of people. The only way I know of to assure that we can continue and keep the atmosphere as it has always been is to remain true to our goal of being a Member supported Community.

I would also like to add that if it wasn't for the dedicated and hard working group of Moderators who keep SMC running smooth every day it would be impossible for us to stay online. These folks are all volunteers and they spend an amazing amount of their personal time working behind the scenes. If you haven't checked out our monthly statistics you will find them in our Support Forum. Look closely at the numbers...they are staggering. The Creek is a huge truck that averages over 740,000 hits every day. Our data transfer is incredible and we are growing an average of over 1400 new Members per month. We seriously need to consider adding more Moderators soon, our Membership has grown by 50% since we added Moderators to our Staff last November.

.

[Al Willits]

fwiw, Kieth,this newbie appreciates the hell out of the job you guys are doing, don't always agree, but it beats the hell out of anywhere else..many thanks.

Al

[John Gregory]

Thanks to all of those that contribute in any way. Financially, content, and those behind the scenes that moderate and adminster the site. We appreciate the administrators and moderators of SMC.
Not only are the members of SMC fellow woodworkers, but they represent many professions. I feel very lucky that I have a source of answers for almost anything including woodworking.

Thanks to you all,

[Joe Chritz]

TANSTAAFL

This was first relayed to me by a firearms instructor when I was struggling to get over a plateau.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Those of us who can contribute, should so the occasional visitors can get the information and advice they need. I have gotten way more than 6 bucks worth of good advice. If you have, then contribute when you can.

I am not opposed to a fund drive or even an occasional reminder. (this time I needed it as when the last drive came around wasn't a good time)

I too am grateful for the work the admins and mods do. It is a thankless job that is rarely noticed until they are needed. I don't understand everything but that is one thing I know well.

Joe

[Ken Milhinch]

To the operators and owners of this board, I am sorry if I have driven any potential contributors away by appearing to shame them. Personally I doubt that to be the case.
To those who think reminders like mine should not be posted, then I will refrain from doing it in future. Let your conscience be your guide.

I am also aware that some people have more funds than others - so be it. My post was directed to those who clearly have the capacity to contribute and don't.

Anyway, sorry I raised it. Go on about your business.

[Jesse Thornton]

Just thought I'd throw two cents in, since I've been reaping the benefits of the Creek for a few months now without having yet sown any seeds (financially speaking).
Ken, I'm not sure how it is you determine who does or doesn't "clearly have the capacity to contribute". I have a shop full of decent tools, but as a newly self-employed woodworker supporting a young family, I'm just barely making ends meet each month. My wife, who handles our family budget, has agreed on sending some money this way when our tax returns come back, but in the meantime we have other priorities that come first. In the end though, our financial situation is not your business, and I don't think you have any place passing judgement on anyone's choice to contribute now, later, or never.
I love the welcoming spirit of the Creek, and had my welcome been hinged upon what I could contribute, I wouldn't have stuck around long enough to decide that I should contribute.

[Nancy Laird]

To the operators and owners of this board, I am sorry if I have driven any potential contributors away by appearing to shame them. .... My post was directed to those who clearly have the capacity to contribute and don't.

Ken, you didn't "appear to shame" anyone - you insulted every member of this board who participates and contributes in any way, shape, or form--whether it be monetarily or with his/her sharing of knowledge and information.

As Jesse so eloquently put it, our financial situation is not your business, and you have no place passing judgement on anyone's choice or capacity to contribute now, later, or never.

If there is any shame involved, IMHO it is shame on you.

Nancy

[Roy McQuay]

I think the Creek is the greatest site on the net. I don't care who contributes or not, nor anyones reason. The moderators are the greatest, but how did Per get missed ? If more money is needed, just ask, I am sure enough volunteers will come forward. Keep up the good work.

[John Miliunas]

I think the Creek is the greatest site on the net. I don't care who contributes or not, nor anyones reason. The moderators are the greatest, but how did Per get missed ? If more money is needed, just ask, I am sure enough volunteers will come forward. Keep up the good work.

Thanks, Roy! Simple and to the point. As for missing Per, beats me. I think he's too busy building classy bars!

As for "judgments", I happen to be a Believer and, to that extent, even the good Lord doesn't judge until after we're dead. The "judgment" comments here have now gone in either direction so, how about we just let it go? For those of you who have or currently contribute in either, context or financially, thank you. For those who may do either/both in the future, thanks in advance. And even to those who just read along and do neither, thanks for stopping in! Now, how's about we get back to sawdust, lasers and woodchips?!