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Thread: Gas price up higher than ever

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Carlyle IL
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    2,183
    I have gotten in on this discussion a bit late.

    For the past several weeks I have used E85 in my 1999 Plymouth Voyager mini van, Odometer reading 189,000 plus miles.

    The price of e85 in currently 2.59 and reg is 2.95. I get 3 miles per gallon less economy with e85. At a 35 cent price difference it is still cheaper to run reg, but I don't.

    I am not so sure that ethanol incurs more cost to make than it is worth. after all it's just grain alcohol. anybody can distill it. At $2.59 per gallon, I would bet that it is becoming profitable. Those comments about it costing more to produce than sell were made back when reg gas was below $2.00

    Now if you really want a cheap fuel source, go with soybean oil and a diesel engine.

    I am a former PR Director for a soybean organization and I have heard this stuff back in the 80's

  2. #62

    Oil and gas: supply and demand.

    Without taking a specific areas' taxes into account, it is all really just supply and demand; both on the crude oil prices and the cost we see at the pump.

    Don't forget that oil is bought and sold on a world commodities price basis. The big oil companies make their money by selling oil in barrels not gasoline in gallons.

    Many oil companies would prefer not to sell gasoline at retail locations. In fact, most retail stations now make more profit in the convenience store side of the retail outlet.

    I have stated this before but once again; a huge part of the issue is the lack of excess supply. Many refineries are land locked and unable to expand to dramatically increase throughput and no one wants to allow new refineries to be built in their back yards.

    As a result, unless we conserve and reduce the amount of gasoline we use, the price will not come down.

    All of that being said; OPEC does a great job of controlling the flow of crude to maintain an certain amount on the world market. This causes prices to fluctuate within a fairly narrow range that they feel will cause the demand to stay stable. They won't allow prices to get so high that governements get upset or consumers find permanent ways to stop using oil base products.

    There is a certain number of people that feel that Iran ( and other countries) often causes turmoil in the world in an attempt to cause fear in the oil markets and therefore increasing the short term price per barrel costs of oil. This results in dramatically higher revenues for the Iranian government in the time period of a given incident. Look at the recent issue with the British sailors for example.

    An interesting theory to say the least.

    Just my 2 cents which is probably only worth a penny,
    Greg Ladd

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
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    4,563
    Whatever the supply and demad curve is, I'd bet that if EVERYONE stopped speeding altogether, the price would be cut in half. I'm sure that alone would cut consumption by 10% or so. I still can't believe how many people I see on the interstate cruising at 80 or 90 MPH in their SUVs. Not good when they already have the aerodynamics of a brick.

    We're right at the $3 mark--$2.999/gal right now.
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Conway, Arkansas
    Posts
    13,181
    A most excellent thread here folks. Gas has gone up another 5¢ in the past 2 days here. Super is now at $3.09 per gallon and Regular is getting ever so close to $3.00 per gallon.
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
    ....DEBT is nothing more than yesterday's spending taken from tomorrow's income.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    Sammamish, WA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Roehl View Post
    Whatever the supply and demad curve is, I'd bet that if EVERYONE stopped speeding altogether, the price would be cut in half. I'm sure that alone would cut consumption by 10% or so. I still can't believe how many people I see on the interstate cruising at 80 or 90 MPH in their SUVs. Not good when they already have the aerodynamics of a brick.

    We're right at the $3 mark--$2.999/gal right now.
    here it's hard to speed, the interstate normally moves at about 25 a good part of the day. That's wasting a lot of gas too. Don't get me started on the highay department here.

    Last evening we were headed down I405 and only the car pool lane was moving, some guy in it on a motorcyle was going about 60 and kept doing wheelies!



    Sammamish, WA

    Epilog Legend 24TT 45W, had a sign business for 17 years, now just doing laser work on the side.

    "One only needs two tools in life: WD-40 to make things go, and duct tape to make them stop." G. Weilacher

    "The handyman's secret weapon - Duct Tape" R. Green

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Mid Michigan
    Posts
    3,559
    Joe,
    I can't speak for WA, haven't driven there. Try a 50 mile one way commute to San Francisco CA over the Bay Bridge 5 days a week for 26 years. 20 of those years were in rush hour traffic. 25 mph would have seemed like racing. LA is much worse.
    David B

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Buse Township, MN
    Posts
    1,500
    Just filled up today..... $2.679/gal unleaded.
    Officially Retired!!!!!!!! Woo-Hoo!!!

    1,036 miles NW of Keith Burns

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Winter Springs Fl
    Posts
    196

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by David Dundas View Post
    You guys should consider yourselves lucky. In Australia we pay the equivalent of US$3.78; and in Europe the price is around double that. Perhaps you need to tax gas more to fund a decent health-care system.

    David
    No Thanks. Socialism Sucks.
    Jim Bell

    One more pass and you may see brass!

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,685
    Professor Dr. SWMBO got stuck paying $2.96 a gallon here in SE PA when she filled up her Prius this afternoon...it was only last week that I filled my Highlander hybrid in New Jersey for $2.57 a gallon. Quite a big swing...
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Monroe, MI
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    11,896
    Quote Originally Posted by Nancy Laird View Post
    What about wind energy???
    There was a segment on This Old House in the last week or two where they visited a wind farm. Each tower will power something like 300 average homes, but even when Texas is fully built out with wind farms they expect to only make about 10% of the state's energy needs. I've thought about looking into some kind of wind power for home since we have pretty consistent high winds right around me. More of a hobby thing than a real energy savings though.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Daugherty View Post
    I can stand on my front porch and count 5 that have been drilled in the last year alone. I've been approached about putting a couple on my land.
    They were searching around here and sank one well about 5 miles away. I haven't heard anything since. I sure wish they would have found some in my back yard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belinda Williamson View Post
    Anyone want to weigh in on the "garbage to fuel" plants?
    I've done work for a company that is solely dedicated to harvesting the methane found in landfills. They are basically breaking even from what I understand. The plant investment (compressors and filtering equipment) is substantial and maintenance costs are fairly high due to the corrosive nature of the landfill gas. They are a subsidiary of a large utility and get some substantial tax breaks, and I would imaging emissions credits, for this venture.

    The other major garbage-to-fuel option is burning it and the opposition is huge. Around here I've been at one site where they burn tires and other waste material in a cement kiln, and another where they burn sludge at a wastewater treatment plant (just for disposal, not for energy.) Both are very controversial projects.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Schmid View Post
    If everybody rode a Harley, this problem wouldn't exist
    Kind of cold here in the winter for that.
    Last edited by Matt Meiser; 04-29-2007 at 9:13 PM.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Grand Marais, MN. A transplant from Minneapolis
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    5,513
    2.95 today up $.30 in 2 days
    TJH
    Live Like You Mean It.



    http://www.northhouse.org/

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Savannah, GA
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    4,422
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Meiser View Post
    I've done work for a company that is solely dedicated to harvesting the methane found in landfills. They are basically breaking even from what I understand. The plant investment (compressors and filtering equipment) is substantial and maintenance costs are fairly high due to the corrosive nature of the landfill gas. They are a subsidiary of a large utility and get some substantial tax breaks, and I would imaging emissions credits, for this venture.

    The other major garbage-to-fuel option is burning it and the opposition is huge. Around here I've been at one site where they burn tires and other waste material in a cement kiln, and another where they burn sludge at a wastewater treatment plant (just for disposal, not for energy.) Both are very controversial projects.
    Matt,
    The plant I was referring to used a combination of heat and compression, IIRC, to breakdown turkey parts and pieces left over after processing. Byproducts of the process were basically oil, which was then refined, and water. There was an article about the process in Discover magazine a couple of years ago, and a follow up about a year ago. Are you familiar with this type of plant?

    “Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy and chivalry.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Everybody knows what to do with the devil but them that has him. My Grandmother
    I had a guardian angel at one time, but my little devil got him drunk, tattooed, and left him penniless at a strip club. I have not had another angel assigned to me yet.
    I didn't change my mind, my mind changed me.
    Bella Terra

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    Monroe, MI
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    11,896
    No I haven't seen those. Where do they get the heat?

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Savannah, GA
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    4,422
    The process is called thermal depolymerization. The company behind the technology is called Changing World Technologies. IIRC, the first run of the plant produces fuel for subsequent runs. The first run requires an outside power provider. This is one of those things that sounds almost too good to be true, as apparently they can process almost any form of refuse. The first TD facility processed byproducts from a Butterball (I think) poultry plant that was hauling away huge truckloads of turkey parts and pieces daily.

    If you are interested in the article in Disocver magazine it is still available for viewing on line. It was in the May 2003 issue I believe.

    “Life is not so short but that there is always time enough for courtesy and chivalry.” —Ralph Waldo Emerson

    Everybody knows what to do with the devil but them that has him. My Grandmother
    I had a guardian angel at one time, but my little devil got him drunk, tattooed, and left him penniless at a strip club. I have not had another angel assigned to me yet.
    I didn't change my mind, my mind changed me.
    Bella Terra

  15. #75
    Paul Kunkel Guest
    Prices are still a factor of what the buyer will bare. I live halfway between Taos, NM & Alamosa, CO. Co has higher road tax and NM has a much higher fuel price at the pump. Both are far from distribution. Taos Plus price $3.299 Alamosa Plus $2.93 Where do I shop? Tell me why the Taos people will pay .37c more a gal. I absolutely refuse to spend my $$ in that town when every thing is less upcountry.

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