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Thread: Ellsworth grind and wolverine vari-grind?

  1. #1

    Ellsworth grind and wolverine vari-grind?

    Hi,

    I am sure this has been address before but I can't find it. I am trying to duplicate the Ellsworth grind with this system. Anyone have protrusion distances from the jig as well as angle setting on the jig. I got more of a finger nail grind and the wings are not high up on the shaft as before. the tool works ok but not exactly what I bought the gouge for.

    Also, How come this vari-gring jig doesn't have any numbers or anything on it. I guess I am spoiled by the tormek which has number to set the gouges for. I just don't know how to set the vari-grind up. Do the notches correspond to angles? I need help.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Pickering Ontario Canada
    Posts
    211
    This comes at just the right time. I was wondering the exact same thing.
    I just purchased the vari-grind, and was considering the ellsworth bowl gouge.

    Chris

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Bedford County, Virginia
    Posts
    2,325
    Matt,
    You might wish to check out OneWay's downloadable videos of the Wolverine and Vari-grind in use. Here is a link to it. HTH.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    1,632
    Matt,
    Do all of your setup with the grinder OFF. Check the heel angle and wing angles by marking the whole cutting face with a black sharpie and turning the wheel by hand. You'll have to make sure that both the protrusion distance and jig angle are correct to match the profile. Once you are happy with where the wheel hits your tool, start the motor on the grinder and do your sharpening.

    BTW, do yourself a favor and mark/write everything down once you are satisfied so that you can easily repeat the grind in the future.

  5. #5
    Dick,

    I appreciate your response. I matched the sides of the gouge to the wheel and then adjusted the angle of the grind on the front of the gouge to the wheel and it looks ok - about 60 degrees. It just doesn't have the wings that go higher up like the original grind. For now, it is more like an Irish Grind with a broader wing. Meaning that the sides go down a bit further from the top of the gouge. It cuts great and I don't know what I am complaining about but it isn't the original factory cut. I have read several measurements and I know that they will vary depending on how you set up the wolverine. I am in the range from what the directions say on distance from the center of the wheel to the platform and the alignment is right on for the wolverine bracket with the front of the wheel and is dead center.

    Some have stated to elevate the V block area with a piece of wood wich may force the gring higher on the wings. Some have suggested different prutrusions of the gouge from the vari-grind jig and has ranged from 1-3/4 to 2-3/4. People have argued that the suggested protrusion on the oneway site wasn't right.

    I guess what I am asking is, how do I get the cut of the wings higher? The rest of the jig appears to be doing things right. Maybe this is all trivial and if it cuts ok then whats the problem, but it is not the original grind for which I purchased it for. I am relatively new to turning, so I might just adapt and find my own style but right now, I would like to achieve the original grind.

  6. #6
    I just made a block that fits in the varigrind holder and my Elsworth jig slips into that, easy.

  7. #7
    I have found that if I have the arm closer to the front of the jig I get what I call a side grind. If I have the arm closer to the back it is more or a finger nail grind, which is closer to the Elsworth grind (I think). I personally have mine about 75% back in the slot.
    Not sure if it helps.
    Mike Vickery

  8. #8

    Thumbs up Ellsworth Gouge

    The Ellsworth Gouge is my favorite tool for turning. To sharp the tool correcting is fairly easy if you invest in a few items. First, I use the Ellsworths Sharpening Jig with Oneway Wolevering system. I have other jigs and the oneway jig but for Ellsworth gouge the Ellsworth jig only. For the Oneway, the jig needs to set at 2 3/16 which is different from most gouges and this is according to the direction supplied with the gouge. I have a fix block next to the grinder at 2 3/16. Next, I purchase the side grind jig and tool angle sample from Packard Woodworks which I use to set the arm on Woleving. I leave the sample tool and side grind jig set at 2 3/16 and never use the side grind jig for anything else - just gives me correct settings for the Ellsworth gouge only. Hope this help. Now to chicken and egg issue - I use a high speed grind which was recommend by Oneway and find I no problems dupicating the grind on my Ellsworth tool. Keep making shaving!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Spean Bridge, Highlands of Scotland
    Posts
    36
    There is also PDF brochure on the oneway http://oneway.ca/pdf/grind_jig.pdf

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Wausau, Wisconsin
    Posts
    81
    Matt,
    I have been looking into this issue also. I recently got the Ellsworth Gouge and I know my PSI (clone of wolverine) sharpening system does not make a fingernail grind like on the Ellsworth. Through a google search, I found the instructions for the Ellsworth jig on Woodcraft's site. That jig requires the pivot point to be only 4" below the center hole of the grinding wheel, and 7" out from the face of the wheel. That is definately different than the stock position. With those specs I think we should be able to make a riser block and adjust our vari-grind jig to the original Ellsworth grind. That's my project for today, I hope this info helps you out. I'll report success or failure.
    -Marc

  11. #11
    IMHO....a grind is "personal" in nature as every person turns and sharpens a little different. I've used other people's turning tools before and I was surprised that with some, I couldn't get them to cut. Get them to their owners and they were off and cutting.

    Now...I don't own an Ellsworth gouge as most all my turning tools are either Crown or P&N. After all, it's not the tool, but the grind that makes the difference in how it performs in ones hands.

    I have a hole drilled into a piece of 2by4 (1-3/4" deep) and clamped in front of my Tormek. I stick every gouge in that whole and clamp the varigrind jig to the tool, place it in the arm-rest, turn on the grinder, and start sharpening. For duplicating a grind, I do like Dick Strauss stated, color the bevel with a sharpie and adjust until I get it.

    Remember, the most important thing?....is to be consistant with your grinds.
    Thanks & Happy Wood Chips,
    Dennis -
    Get the Benefits of Being an SMC Contributor..!
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Martindale View Post
    Matt,
    That's my project for today, I hope this info helps you out. I'll report success or failure.

    Marc,

    I am looking forward to your results. Being visually minded, pictures of your final setup would help. Thanks.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    37,510
    You can come close to the Ellsworth grind with the Wolverine, but not exact as the pivot points and other factors are slightly different. Personally, I use the Ellsworth sharpening jig with my Wolverine system (I have the Vari-Grind for other things, too)...it works just fine as long as you make a block to adjust the pivot point height in the V-Arm to match David's specifications.

    But the bottom line is to have the grind come out EXACTLY the same every time, so if you use the Vari-Grind, mark it carefully for the angle and make a jig to insure that the pivot point is exactly the same distance from the wheel every time. (Remember, the wheel gets smaller in diameter as you use and dress it)
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  14. #14

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Stow, OH
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    1,023
    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Martindale View Post
    Matt,
    That jig requires the pivot point to be only 4" below the center hole of the grinding wheel, and 7" out from the face of the wheel. That is definately different than the stock position.
    The grinding wheel is round. No matter what position you are grinding your tool (high or low), your grinding surface is always tangent to your wheel.
    The reason that Ellsworth jig needs to raise the height is because the Ellsworth jig needs clearance to pivot. If you compare the Varigrind jig and the Ellsworth jig, you will notice that the pivot point on the Varigrind is in front of the jig (less than the set back). The Ellsworth pivots behind the set back. Therefore when the Ellsworth is set at 2" set back, actually the gouge is pivoting about 3" from the tip. Besides the length of the legs in both jigs are different.

    Therefore it won't work if you just modify the arm position and still using the Varigrind jig at 1-3/4" or 2" set back.

    Gordon

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