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Thread: Newbie has many nerdy plane questions...

  1. #1

    Newbie has many nerdy plane questions...

    Hello--This is my first time to post here or on anyother woodworking forum--

    I am slowly moving toward woodworking as a hobby. At the present time, I am at the very earliest learning stages of planes. I have been reading a lot and have purchased several planes. My plan is to learn as I go--Im primarily buying old stanleys off ebay. Some are as new, but others far from it. My most rescent addition that arrived yesterday is a number 7--apparently made about 1910. I like these planes, but I already have an expensive hobby so will not be working toward an exhaustive collection. Thus, the plane is a 1910, but I just got it to use and am not worried about making alterations.

    I have read about tuning planes and am going to head that direction with this one. So far, I am working to clean it of dirt. The Handle on the back is cracked in two. I plan to glue that. The blade seemed to be at about a 30 or more degree angle and it was very dull. It Blade is slightly convex. The Cap (?) that screws to the blade is slightly deformed looking and has some elevation o the corners to that even when it is back1/8th of an inch or so from the blade, it gets wood between it and the plane plade. I have very few tools and will have to wait for finances prior to getting one of the nice sharpeners I have seen folks talk about here. I have one of the 20$ set-ups from home depot with 3 different stones on it--coarse, medium and fine.

    Now, with that background, my questions:

    Should the blade have some convexity or should I grind it flat?

    So far, I am grinding it at a 25 degree angle with a file and the item I mentioned above.

    The shavings that come from this are narrow--1/2 inch, and all crinkled up. not like the ones from my newer number 4 and 5 planes. The wood the plane goes over is rough after it passes over --not surprising given the shaving it is making. Any ideas on this?

    Can the piece that goes on the blade be salvaged or would I need a new one? it is structurally sound with only minimal rust, but has the deformity I noted.

    MY plans are to:

    Sharpen the blade as much as possible

    Wash the plane in kerosene and then reoil lightly.

    See if the sole is flat and if not, use the directions from one of my books to correct.

    Should I just buy a new blade for this one? If so, would would be the best one to get?

    I have about 50$ in this plane and am hoping to keep my total expenditure under 75-80$

    Any input on all these questions is really appreciated!

  2. #2
    Can you post a pic of the plane? I could host the image on my photobucket account if you need me to. Just emil me the pictures at ryan. cathey@ hotmail.com (remove all spaces).
    -Ryan C.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Cockeysville, Md
    Posts
    1,805
    Hey Jeffrey, welcome to the creek!!!

    A new blade is an option but not a necessity, the stock blade will do fine for now, just sharpen as best you can. Put some extra effort into the back (non-beveled) side of the blade to get it as flat and shiney as you can. The is one of the most important steps in sharpening. 25-35 degree bevel angle is fine.

    You'll find varying opinions on how flat/curved the blade should be ground and the main issue is how you intend to use the plane. If you want it for hogging off large chunks of wood (similar to a scrub plane) then a 2-3" radius would be the way to go. If you'll be using in a jointer role for flattening panels and edges, then i would suggest a straight grind with slightly relieved corners. If the blade already has a radius grind, then it's quite possible the previous owner used it as a scrub plane. If the mouth has been filed open for this purpose then the plane will not do so good as a jointer which requires a small tight mouth.

    As for the chipbreaker (cap) should sit perfectly flush with the surface of the blade. It's purpose is to break up the chip as soon as the blade severs it loose from the wood so it doesn't run forward of the cutter.

    For use as a scrub plane, a flat sole is not that important. For use as a jointer you should get it as flat as you can.

    Hope this helps some and please feel free to ask more questions! You'll find plenty of folks on here that are wiser and far more experienced than I.

    Brian
    The significant problems we encounter cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.

    The penalty for inaccuracy is more work

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    446
    Jeffery,

    Here are some ideas that might help you overall with plane tune-up:

    Sharpening Plane Irons:

    Plane irons: There are numerous ways to do this; all of them work. Here's mine:
    I sharpen freehand with Japanese water stones. If you use any type of sharpening stones, make sure that they are flat before you begin. (Any type of sharpening stone -- oil, india, ceramic, water, diamond, etc -- will work perfectly well.)
    Square (90°) the leading edge of the iron with the sides, if necessary; you can use a grinder, a file, or a coarse stone to do this. If you use a grinder, be careful not to burn the steel and draw the temper.
    On the flat side of the iron, start with your coarsest stone and work your way up through the grits to your finest stone. You want to polish the non-bevel side of the iron for about an inch (more or less -- it doesn't have to be exact) back from the cutting edge. You're looking for a mirror polish here. You usually only have to do this once. A few honing strokes on your finest stone on the flat side of the iron will maintain the mirror polish in future sharpenings.
    (One reason that you want the back of the iron mirror polished is to match the mirror polish that you'll be putting on the bevel side of the edge. This polishing largely eliminates the tiny/microscopic serrations that would otherwise be there, and which are prone to break off in use, hastening the dulling of the iron. If both intersecting surfaces are polished to the same degree, there are fewer and smaller serrations to break off; this helps the edge last longer, all other things being equal. You want to polish at least to the approximate equivilent of 6000 or 8000 grit on Japanese water stones, regardless of the method you use.)
    Once the flat of the iron is polished, flip it over to the bevel side. Again starting with your coarsest stone, work your way through the grits up to your finest stone. Again, you're looking for a mirror polish.
    I like my bevels honed flat, and generally don't use a micro-bevel; others prefer a hollow grind and some also a micro-bevel or back bevel. All of these variations work, so it's mostly a matter of personal preference, more than anything else. None of these methods or end results are "wrong" as they all cut the wood.....so there's really no need to get wrapped up in whether a micro-bevel is superior to a ..... and so forth. Find one that you like and works for you and stick with it.
    Anyway, back to the subject at hand.... One technique that makes it easier to keep the bevel flat on the stone at a consistent angle is to lock your arms -- that is, lock your wrists, elbows, and shoulders with your arms extended. The "lock" you want is a "relaxed" lock, not the muscle-tense-hands-shaking, white-knuckled, death-grip lock. Then step back slightly and position your feet like you're walking. Now, rock the bevel forward until it is flat onto the stone, lock your arms, and move your belly button forward and backward (from your hips, using your legs to move) about two or three inches. Your iron should remain flat and at the same angle throughout this motion. After doing this for a couple of minutes, you'll get the feel for the bevel on the stone and will be able to relax a bit and use a bit more arm motion if you want to.
    Once you have the basic sharpening completed, then you can add a micro-bevel and/or back bevel and camber the iron if desired.
    How sharp is sharp enough? There are many answers to this question. My answer is that if it will pull shavings off of end grain pine, then it's sharp enough for almost any woodworking operation.
    It will take a few tries to get sharpening down, but don't give up. Once you learn how to sharpen, you'll find that your woodworking improves substantially -- because sharp tools work so much better and easier than dull ones, and you can concentrate on guiding the cut instead of trying to force the (dull) tool to work. And, if you find that freehanding it just won't work for you, then get a sharpening jig and learn to use it; once you become proficient with the jig, you can give freehanding another shot if you want.
    Good luck!! I hope that this long-winded explanation is of some use to you.
    Hand Plane Tune-Up:


    Here's what I do when I teach plane tune-up classes (some of this will be the same info as others have already posted) (This assumes that your plane is complete, generally undamaged, and not too rusty or grimy.):
    1) Disassemble and inspect the plane. Take everything apart: knob, tote, lever cap, iron, chip breaker, frog, iron adjustment wheel, all screws. Inspect for rust, grime, missing parts, damage to parts, etc.
    2) Clean everything. Mineral spirits and steel wool/scotchbrite-type pads work well for most cleaning. If the rust is really bad, you can use electrolysis. A brass/bronze toothbrush-sized brush is also handy for getting in to corners and such. I generally don't use a wire wheel because it can damage parts, but that's up to you whether to use one or not.
    3) Re-inspect and note any damage, etc., that might have been hidden by rust or grime.
    4) Determine whether the frog bosses on the casting are flat and parallel: set the frog on the bosses and try to rock the frog. If it rocks -- doesn't sit flat and square on the bosses -- then either the frog boss(es) on the casting or the bottom of the frog are not flat/parallel. Or both may need work. Use a fine file to make the bosses on the casting flat and parallel, as necessary. Use a light touch here, and try to remove as little metal as is absolutely necessary.
    5) Flatten the bottom of the frog, as necessary (see #4, above). Also, use a straight edge to determine whether the iron bedding surface of the frog is flat and parallel. If not, use a file to flatten/make parallel, as necessary. You want the iron to mate tightly and as completely as possible with this surface -- it helps make the iron rigid, reducing chatter. Again, a light touch with the file is best.
    6) Inspect the mouth. The forward edge should be flat and square to the sole. If not square it and/or flatten it, as required. This is one place where you really, really want to remove as little metal as is absolutely necessary. The tighter the mouth can be made, the better results -- i.e., less tear-out -- (all other things being equal) you will get when using it as a smoothing plane.
    7) Inspect the mating surface of the lever cap. File it square and flat, as necessary. Remove the file marks on a medium and then fine smoothing stone. Lubricate the lever mechanism on the upper end.
    8) Inspect the mating surface of the chip breaker. File it square and flat, as necessary. Remove the file marks on a medium and then fine smoothing stone. Polish the upper portion of the leading edge with 400/600 (and higher grits, if you desire) sand paper. The mating surface should completely mate with the iron -- with no gaps. This will help prevent shavings from sticking between the chip breaker and the iron, and jamming your plane. It also makes the iron more rigid and helps prevent chatter. The polished upper leading edge helps move the shavings up and away from the mouth.
    9) Inspect the iron. Grind as necessary. The leading edge needs to be square to the sides. Polish the reverse (non-bevel side) of the iron (about 1" to 1½" back from the cutting edge) to a mirror polish. You should be able to see fine details in the reflection. (You normally have to do this only once; subsequent sharpenings/honings will keep it that way.) Then hone the bevel side of the iron progressively up through your finest sharpening stone, also to a mirror polish. Add a micro-bevel, if desired.
    10) Put a very light coat of oil on all screws and pivot points. Clean and polish the brass iron adjustment wheel, as needed/desired.
    11) Make any necessary repairs to the knob and/or tote. Sand off any old nasty finish and refinish the knob and tote with oil, shellac, etc., as needed/desired. I strongly recommend against polyurethane; it looks horrible on wooden plane parts

    12) Reassemble the plane. Withdraw the iron above the level of the sole. You want the plane fully assembled to introduce whatever stresses will be present when planing into the lapping process, so that the sole is flat when the plane is set-up for use. Lap the sides if desired (not really needed for a smoothing plane, unless you're going to use it on a shooting board. If so, then make sure that you lap the sides at exactly a 90° angle to the sole.) Now comes the fun part: lap the sole. Use a known flat surface (float/plate glass, surface plate, etc. Some recommend using the wing of a table saw or one of the tables on a jointer; personally, I cringe at the thought of deliberately introducing grit into fine machinery....) Start with 80 grit and progressively work your way up to 220 grit; don't skip a grit. You can go higher, but once you pass 220, you're just polishing the surface. Water or a light machine oil on the sand paper makes a good lubricant to float the swarf away. How flat is flat? Well, for smoothing planes, the general rule of thumb is "flatter is better." At the least, you want the first 1" or so of the toe, the ½" to 1" in front of the mouth, the ½" to 1" behind the mouth, and the last 1" or so of the heel to be co-planar. Using a permanent marker to mark wavy lines on the sole will help you see your progress. Continue lapping until you have reached the desired level of flatness. This is quite boring, but you need to maintain your attention to the task at hand to do a good job. It may take only a couple of minutes or it may take a couple of hours, depending on what shape the sole of your plane is in and how flat you want it. Use an accurate straight edge to check flatness from toe to heel and from side to side, especially in front of the mouth. Once you have finished lapping the sole, disassemble and clean as necessary. If you used water as the lubricant, make sure that you get all of the water off your plane, to prevent new rust!!
    13) Reassemble the plane, and adjust the iron for a light cut. Test your newly-tuned plane on a nice piece of hard wood. You should be able to take nice, full-width, translucent shavings. Enjoy!
    There are many different possible sequences to do this; the one listed above is merely the one that I use.
    _____
    You can expect a well-tuned smoothing plane to put a surface on a piece of wood that is ready to apply finish to. When you look at the surface against a light at a low angle, the surface of the wood should reflect the light like glass, and it should feel almost glass-smooth.
    Have fun, and good luck!
    James

    "Uke is always right."
    (Attributed to Ueshiba Morihei)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    507
    Jeffrey,

    Here is another good resource on plane tune ups http://www.rexmill.com/ Sound like you need to do some work on the chip breaker, it should mate flush with the back of the iron. See the David Charlesworth article at RexMill, he covers tuning up the chip breaker. Derek Cohen posted a great tutorial here on the Creek a while back on flattening the backs of plane irons, you should be able to find it easily enough. If you are looking for a honing guide, consider the MKII from Lee Valley. You might also consider the so called scary sharp method of sharpening if funding is an issue, as the initial outlay for materials is only a few bucks.

    Have fun
    Jonathan


    "I left Earth three times. I found no place else to go. Please take care of Spaceship Earth." -- Wally Schirra, who flew around Earth on Mercury, Gemini and Apollo missions in the 1960s.

  6. #6
    thanks so much--clearly, this will be a project that will take some time.

    Since I first posted, I have have ground the blade to 25 degrees, flattened the blade, Also, I noted that the blade was longer on one side than the other at the blade end. I ground it so it was flat before doing the degree grind. I have cleaned the sole and waxed it. The chip breaker is a slow progress and I have just been doing a little at a time with my dremel--the front corners are kind of elevated up--will read the articles and see what I can do about getting it actually straightened out.


    Thanks again--will bring updates as they occur--OH! forgot to say the plane is not cutting paper thin pieces pretty much the whole width of the plane blade. You alls help has been invaluable!


    Jeff

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Phoenix, AZ
    Posts
    1,417
    Wow, what a very helpful post from James Owen! Thanks for taking the time to write that, just wanted to let you know it's appreciated... I even bookmarked it for quick reference lol.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    446
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave MacArthur View Post
    Wow, what a very helpful post from James Owen! Thanks for taking the time to write that, just wanted to let you know it's appreciated... I even bookmarked it for quick reference lol.
    Dave,

    Thanks for the kind words.
    James

    "Uke is always right."
    (Attributed to Ueshiba Morihei)

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