What to buy? Old or new tools?

[Jeffrey Larsen]

I am working to build up a collection of woodworking tools. This will be for a hobby and not for a job.

My question is a general one; It appears to me that with regards to planes, handsaws, etc, that there are old ones for sale on the bay and else where that are so inexpensive compared to new ones; For this reason, I haven't purchased any planes, scrapers, chisels, etc that are new and only have stuff purchased on the bay.

Is there any philosophy that can be shared with regards to whether to buy old or new? I know that this is a broad and open ended question, but will be interested to know what folks say; For example, It will interest me to know that possibly in the real world of woodworking that I don't know much about that old tools may not work as well as new ones.

I just can't really afford to buy planes or chisels or saws that are hundreds of dollars and to me it appears that the way to go is to look for high quality used stuff available at a fraction of the cost of LN, etc, etc,

Thoughts?

Jeff

[Mike Henderson]

I am working to build up a collection of woodworking tools. This will be for a hobby and not for a job.

My question is a general one; It appears to me that with regards to planes, handsaws, etc, that there are old ones for sale on the bay and else where that are so inexpensive compared to new ones; For this reason, I haven't purchased any planes, scrapers, chisels, etc that are new and only have stuff purchased on the bay.

Is there any philosophy that can be shared with regards to whether to buy old or new? I know that this is a broad and open ended question, but will be interested to know what folks say; For example, It will interest me to know that possibly in the real world of woodworking that I don't know much about that old tools may not work as well as new ones.

I just can't really afford to buy planes or chisels or saws that are hundreds of dollars and to me it appears that the way to go is to look for high quality used stuff available at a fraction of the cost of LN, etc, etc,

Thoughts?

Jeff

You can do excellent work with older tools - after all, our ancestors used those tools and produced furniture that we still emulate. The secret is in preparing and tuning the tool and knowing how to use it - this takes time and knowledge. With good quality new tools (like a Lie-Nielsen plane) much of this preparing and tuning is already done for you. So if you have more time than money, or if you want to know your tools intimately, buy old tools. Just get some help and advice from those who know old tools on which ones to buy so you get a quality base to start from.

I'll comment that many woodworkers start with older tools. This doesn't mean that they won't purchase a Lie-Nielsen plane at sometime in their woodworking career - and they may find that LN plane to be superior to their tuned up old plane. But the furniture they produce is about the same with either tool.

Good luck in your woodworking career!

Mike

[Jeff Raymond]

I'm an old-tool kinda guy. If you look around at the plastic junk that is sold today you can buy the real deal for much less. Just last week I bought a Rockwell 3-knife jointer that weighs about 200 lbs (we're talking American cast iron here) for $100. It has a 120/230 v motor and has been in constant use since new.

Compare same to the garbage sold at HD etc., and you'll see that there is no comparison at all. I don't believe in the bay because a) it's all about the bay making money and b) unless it is local you don't know what you are getting until after the purchase is made, which just doesn't make sense to me.

There was a time when people had integrity about their products and stood behind their name, whether it was a plane, chisel or power tool and them days are gone my friends.

Especially in power tools, it is important to have mass in the table/tool itself to absorb the operations of the machine, and my vote is to walk away from anything with aluminum or plastic in it and go for the cast iron. It will cost less, provide years of performance, work better, have standard replaceable parts.

Not only that, they are heavier and help keep you in better shape when you have to move them around.

Guess that one is beat to death, huh?

[John Schreiber]

This is an interesting issue, with practical and philosophical sides. I could go on and on, but I think Mike hit the practical side pretty much on the head above. I'll leave it at that.

[Terry Bigelow]

Yes, well said Mike. I'm an old tool guy as well. All my planes, saws and most of my hand tools are old ones. I don't think it works in EVERY case but as mike said it's all about tuning up the tool. This is always a topic that brings people "out of the woodwork", I'm sure more will comment!

[Jim Becker]

Easy answer to the OP's question: "Yes". Buy old or new tools!

Seriously and looking at this from the perspective of someone like myself with very limited time to faddle, I most often buy new tools or something "old" that requires little or no manipulation to make said tool ready to use. My shop time is so dear, that I prefer to be working wood, rather than working on tools. That said, if you have the time, doing some refurb can be a very enjoyable endeavor. Ultimately, a combination of new and older tools is going to end up in most tool chests, IMHO, simply because there is some really good current stuff available today as well as good opportunities to source old.

[Zahid Naqvi]

I just can't really afford to buy planes or chisels or saws that are hundreds of dollars and to me it appears that the way to go is to look for high quality used stuff available at a fraction of the cost of LN, etc, etc,

Thoughts?

That's what happened to me about three years ago (or has it been longer?). Anyway, I wanted to get into woodworking but didn't have the money to buy all these machines, so I went the hand tool route. Then I discovered that I didn't have the money to buy all these shiny new tools, so I went the old tool route. In the process of buying and rehabbing old planes (and a few other tools) I learned a lot about how various componants work with each other to create the finished tool. The process of bringing an old tool back to life in itself has a certain satisfactory aspect to it. Try your hand at an old hand plane first, I think you will like this approach. A Mike said the items you build have a lot more to do with your skill at using a tool and much less on the tool itself. There is a very large segment of the woodworking community who uses older hand tools and machines, because of which there is a lot of information in this regard on the Internet.

[Maurice Metzger]

I would try both and see which you prefer. I personally like old tools, they have a "lived in" feel that I'm more comfortable with. Some guys wearing Smokey the Bear hats gave me a lifelong dislike of brass or bronze that needs shining and I'd probably cry if I owned a Lie Nielsen plane and it got rusty.

Also some tools are equally or even more expensive used than new, because they're scarce (for example a used Stanley shoulder plane). I'm getting ready to buy a new shoulder plane for that reason. But I would stay away from the new Stanley tools, they are not well made.

HTH,
Maurice

[James Carmichael]

As Jim said, "yes" to both.

It bears mentioning that with the newer, premium planes like LN, Veritas, et. al, they're not only pre-tuned, but utilize improved designs and materials, like much thicker irons than the original bailey-style planes.

It is very educational and gratifying to rehab older tools. With planes, it's an inexpensive way to get started and get an idea of how things work and what features you want in your next plane (and there WILL be more!). And there is yet a third option: build your own, either a woodie or maybe an infill from a kit.

Vintage handsaws and chisels are, IMO, where you can really save some $$$ shopping for older specimens and investing some sweat equity.

[James Owen]

I am working to build up a collection of woodworking tools. This will be for a hobby and not for a job.....Thoughts?

Jeff

Jeff,

As others have said, there are some very nice old tools out there. Tuning them up and bringing them "back to life" certainly generates a lot of satisfaction, as does building a nice piece of furniture with them.

One thing that has not been mentioned, and that I think might be useful to you, is to have a bench mark from which to judge the level/quality of your old tool's performance after tune up. For this reason, it's useful to spend the money to buy one, for example, high-quality hand plane (one that you'll use all the time) to show you what "right" looks, feels, performs, etc., like. After that, you know what to look for....

[John Powers]

Had it to do over I'd buy nice new chisels or hit the flea markets. got too many pitted backsides of chisels from E Bay and with postage and new handles its a loosing proposition if you want to chisel and not rehab chisels. Have to hold it in my hand or see it in a catalog.

[James Carmichael]

Had it to do over I'd buy nice new chisels or hit the flea markets.

Yeah, my best "finds" have been rummaging through rust bins at flea mkts, pawn shops, or antique malls. Another option if you're into the rehab thing (including making handles) is to buy lots of old socket chisels off of Ebay or if you're really into it, the Live Free or Die auctions (do a forum search for more info).

At least some of the old socket chisels never had "factory" handles, a craftsman was expected to make his own.

[Peter Gavin]

One last point I would like to make is that if possible you should get at least One new (good quality) plane. That way, you will know how a plane is Supposed to feel as you tune up older planes. Probably the most used plane in my shop is a low angle block plane and they can be had from Lee Valley for not Too much money. Or else if you know someone else that can show you what sharp and tuned is you could try that.

JMHO

Peter

[Wilbur Pan]

I've gone the (primarily) old tool route myself.

But even more important than whether to buy old vs. new tools, or low end vs. high end tools, is to know what a finely tuned hand tool can do. For me, I have the luck to have a neighbor who is very good at using hand tools. I also took a woodworking course that included information on how to use and maintain hand tools. Both showed me what to strive for with my hand tools.

I strongly recommend taking a class or finding a resource (friend, neighbor, woodworking club) so that you can gain this knowledge in person. The internet and videos are great, but this is one area where being able to see this in person will make all the difference in the world.

Once I had the experience of seeing what hand tools can do, I felt much more comfortable buying used old hand tools off of eBay and garage sales.