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Thread: Starting a basement workshop

  1. #1
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    Starting a basement workshop

    Well, it looks like LOML has finally freed me from projects enough that I can start on the workshop! So I'm going to ask for a little advice and see what you guys think.

    We moved into this house a little over a year ago, and the unfinished basement space has become a combination temporary workshop and storage for all things unwanted. This is a perfect excuse to clean it out and start from scratch.

    First, the space itself: It's roughly 11'x25' with 8' ceilings. The east wall is against earth and the north wall is against earth/concrete (garage slab), but the ground slopes downward to the west so the western wall is entirely above ground (walkout basement). Currently the unfinished space includes the water heater and HVAC system, but I plan to wall that area off and have not included it in the measurements above. I've included two photos, a sketchup file, and a JPG of the sketchup file to help clarify the layout. The space to the right of the red wall is utility (the red wall represents the partition wall I will build). Note that in the photos you will see a lot of junk and boxes and stuff - sorry 'bout that, I decided to post here before cleaning up. Oh, by the way, as far as electrical goes, if you look at the west-facing photo, you will see that I had a 60A sub-panel dropped in for the workshop when we had the main 200A panel replaced. There are currently no breakers in it, so I can set it up however I wish.

    Alright, second is the request: How shall I go about "building" the workshop? I've seen enough photos and have a book or two that may help, so I'm not so much asking for layout help as I am construction advice. We do not have a particularly damp basement, and doing the whole "paint, insulate, frame, drywall" thing seems like overkill to me, but maybe it's a good idea for the workshop. I plan on insulating for noise, as the space above is kitchen/dining area.

    Maybe it would be easier if I listed my questions.
    1. Is there a good reason to insulate the concrete walls? We're in a temperate enough area that it's never been unpleasantly hot or cold in the basement.
    2. Do I need to worry about dust getting into the utility space? I was thinking that I'd drywall (or wood panel) the shop side, and staple heavy plastic to the other side of the partition wall.
    3. I've read several posts about sound insulation, and plan on insulating the ceiling and around the ductwork. If I'm going to wall off the utility space, should I plan on a standard 2x4 wall, or make it a 6" wall with staggered studs and extra insulation?
      • Sub-question: Should I consider tearing out the shelves against the stairs and building an insulated wall there, too? The other side of the stairs is finished, but rarely used.
    4. Dust control is a major issue for me, since I'm in the house, but I'm worried about noise. I don't really have the money to spend on a giant 4-cyclone beast with twin turbocharged, water-cooled, 30hp motors, so I don't think noise will be too excessive, but I'm still worried. For space reasons, I'm thinking about building a small DC closet that I could heavily insulate into the utility space, but because of the proximity of the HVAC, I'd completely seal it from the utility space and vent it back into the workshop. Anyone see a problem with this?
    5. What am I not considering?
    I would greatly appreciate anyone's advice here - I'm on a limited budget, but really want to do this right the first time.


    Thanks in advance,

    daniel
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    Last edited by daniel lane; 06-03-2007 at 9:57 PM. Reason: Punctuation. :)
    Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen or oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.

  2. #2
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    Daniel,

    I'd start by assembling that brand new band saw on the floor!

    It sounds like you have some (fun) work ahead of you. It's going to be a great space.
    The day you think you know everything will be very same day you stop learning.

  3. #3
    looks like we're in this together!i've got a garage thats 10X20, now THATS going to be fun turning into a mini woodshop!! so if anyone has tips for me as well...

  4. #4
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    I wouldn't overthink the noise thing unless bedrooms are directly above. Both my current shop and my previous one were under the living areas, not the sleeping areas. If you think about the time you are actually running a router (for me the noisiest tool - my tbl saw, planer, and jointer don't even come close) or other very loud tool, if you're not going to wake a sleeping child or spouse you're fine. If you're going to do a long run on a noisy machine you just have to plan accordingly. I would think more about the dust. Both my current Oneida cyclone and my previous Delta 2 stage weren't raise the roof loud - were never an issue. A low end shop vac is a different story. So, I would spend the cash on dust control as opposed to noise. As for bare concrete, it does magnify noise for you in the room and can be a humidity issue. Make sure you keep a coat of wax on your cast iron surfaces. Finally, on your electrics. I ran an eight opening box off my main w/ 60 amp breaker to handle my 220 circuits (which are double bay breakers). My 110's run off the main.

  5. #5
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    My work area is a giant 12x26 garage extension, so I understand space limitations. Here's some suggestions:

    1. Move everything out of the workshop that isn't woodworking. External sheds and garage shelves are your friend.

    2. Paint the floor with high grade epoxy. It keeps moisture from wicking into the wood. If you don't do it now, you'll never be able to move everything out again.

    3. Install four sets of four 4ft T8 fluorescent lights. Buy the expensive "near daylight" bulbs with a 90+ CRI.

    4. As you arrange tools, leave about 12" space in each corner. The space is useful for storing jigs, boards, clamps and stuff.

    5. The table saw has to go along the long axis. The choice is whether to put the workbench behind the saw where it is most accessible or make it double as an outfeed table.

    6. Consider deleting the big shelves in your drawing. They seem to make a tunnel that limits your working room.

    7. Put the jointer right next to the outside door and open the door to joint a long board. Or put it next to the table saw.

    8. Install a planer in a fliptop roll around cabinet box. Use the flat box lid as an infeed table and a general work area.

    9. Put up an awning or extension outside the back door.

    10. Use a roll around dust collector with a 1micron canister. This keeps the pipe runs short and the air flow high. On good days, you can open the doors and put it outside.

    11. Where are you going to store wood? Can you put it in the garage and use a circular saw to break it down before moving it to the basement?

    12. Noise - I'd at least insulate and sheetrock the ceiling. And set the power tools on neoprene pads or vibration dampeners. The reason to sheetrock or panel the walls is for ease of hanging stuff.

    13. Locate all outlets 4'-6" off the floor.

    I realize that these ideas are counter to what you are currently thinking and may not work for your situation. Good luck and keep us posted.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel lane View Post
    ... the ground slopes downward to the west so the western wall is entirely above ground (walkout basement). .... by the way, as far as electrical goes, if you look at the west-facing photo, you will see that I had a 60A sub-panel dropped in for the workshop
    Daniel,

    I also have a basement shop, of fairly similar size. I wish I had an exposed wall like you do, as I'd put in big windows, and maybe even a door for bringing in/out stock, tools, and projects. You state that the West wall (where the elec panel is) is exposed, but I only see one window that is fully covered!?!?!

    My walls are only insulated halfway down (old, weird, code). I actually prefer it that way -- and I live in a much colder climate than you. I've lived in 3 houses over my life time and all three of them have at one time or another had some water in them. My current house's basement I would consider "bone dry", but even then, I have had minor trickles of water in one corner when a big store comes from the east (almost never). I'd rather be able to see this, and deal with it, than have it hidden behind walls. To me, basements are good for HVAC, for storage, for playrooms, and for shops. I have no interest in finished/living space in a basement.

    Regarding insulation. Insulating the ceiling is your call. Mine isn't, and it isn't a huge issue. (kitchen/mudroom and lightly used family room above. Bedrooms are up on the 2nd floor) However as to insulating the walls that you plan to build... why bother? You specifically state that the rest of the basement has HVAC in it, and "The other side of the stairs is finished, but rarely used." If it is rarely used, I wouldn't bother.

    Regarding the shelves by the stairs. Daniel, it's a shop, we always fill them and wish for more space. Looking at your sketchup file I would suggest ripping down those shelves and moving that doorway so the wall is flush with the stairs. According to your sketchup file that will give you another 18"x12' of space in your shop!! That is nothing to sneeze at. Furthermore, can you then also claim the space under the stairs? great spot for storage - lumber, jigs, or maybe an air compressor would fit there.

    Regarding Dust in the HVAC space... If you put a ceiling in your shop, then that should contain things. I don't have a ceiling, but I filled in the joist cavities with pieces of thin hardboard fitted into place with all the corners taped. Along with my single-bag DC that keeps things contained to the shop. No complaints here.

    Other suggestions? Move that HVAC wall as far over as you can manage to maximize shop space. Random family storage is still necessary as well, so some shelving in the HVAC room to get boxes of Christmas decorations (and the like) out of your shop would be usefull. If you have young kids, then consider a simple lock on the door to keep them safely out. I have a simple hook up at the top of the door to keep it latched. That is enough to keep anyone 5 and under out, which is sufficient.

    Another interesting safety suggestion I have heard is to wire some of your shop circuits (ie: the TS and other really dangerous tools) so that they have switches near the door. So when you exit the shop you can just flick off all those switches, and kill the power to those tools. Or in your case you hould just have a cutoff at the panel.

    There you go, let us know how it turns out.
    ...art
    "It's Not About You."

  7. #7
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    The subpanel that runs all the circuits except the lights is a good idea. A lockout of some kind if you have kids that could get into it.

    Only other advice I would add the the substantially good advice already given is the build it so changes are easy. I spent a lot of time in the design phase and have already made changes and am making a few others soon.

    Needs change and sometimes you get a new tool that just has to have a home.

    Enjoy the process it is fun.

    Joe
    JC Custom WoodWorks

    For best results, try not to do anything stupid.

    "So this is how liberty dies...with thunderous applause." - Padmé Amidala "Star Wars III: The Revenge of the Sith"

  8. #8
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    I've been working on setting up an 11' x 20' basement workshop since the fall. Although these don't directly address all of your questions, this is what I learned:

    1. Regardless of how dry your basement is, paint the walls with Drylok. It will cut down on the humidity a lot, even in a dry basement like mine.

    2. However many outlets you plan to put in, double that number, especially for 220V outlets. Also spend twice as much time planning your infrastructure as you initially intend to.

    3. You can't have too much lighting. If you are buying fluorescent fixtures, get ones that space the bulbs as far apart as possible. This makes the light much more even, and you'll have less problems with shadows. If you leave the ceiling unfinished, paint it white.

    4. I have a 1.5 HP dust collector and an air cleaner. I leave the air cleaner running after I'm done working, and I can't hear it very much in my kitchen, which is directly above the workshop.

    5. Mobile bases for everything.

    6. Take your time, and have fun. Good luck!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mulder View Post
    You state that the West wall (where the elec panel is) is exposed, but I only see one window that is fully covered!?!?!
    There are no windows in the basement, so it must be an artifact from the shrunken photo. (The west wall is below the deck, so a window wouldn't allow much light, anyway.) The wall is exposed, though, and I have often wondered what it would take to put in a window...

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mulder View Post
    Regarding the shelves by the stairs. Daniel, it's a shop, we always fill them and wish for more space. Looking at your sketchup file I would suggest ripping down those shelves and moving that doorway so the wall is flush with the stairs. According to your sketchup file that will give you another 18"x12' of space in your shop!! That is nothing to sneeze at. Furthermore, can you then also claim the space under the stairs? great spot for storage - lumber, jigs, or maybe an air compressor would fit there.
    I'm actually planning on removing the shelves on both sides and claiming that space for the shop, fixtures TBA. I'm thinking of a cantilevered CMS station on the south wall, with storage above and below. As for the east shelves, I haven't decided yet. The space below the stairs is open behind those shelves, so I could use the access for storage, but since I want to keep most of the noisy stuff to the west, I was thinking cabinets along that wall. I'm still thinking, but you guys have given me a lot of good ideas!

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mulder View Post
    Other suggestions? Move that HVAC wall as far over as you can manage to maximize shop space.
    That wall is fairly set because of access around the HVAC and water heater. If I keep it flush with the FRONT of the north cabinets, I have about 10-12" to the south of the HVAC unit, less if you consider the (barely visible) humidifier on the ductwork.

    Anyway, thanks to everyone for all of your thoughts so far. It looks like it's going to be more work than I thought, but more fun, too.



    daniel
    Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen or oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.

  10. #10
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    I set up an 18x30 basement shop with no previous contracting-type experience. I took over one corner of the basement and built walls on the other two sides.

    I started with the walls and got one of those explosive nail gun things to nail fasteners into the concrete. Drywalled the walls but not the ceiling. Installed a 10in drop ceiling to allow room for lighting and 6in PVC ducting. Insulated inside the joists with standard paper-backed insulation. We did notice a nice reduction in upstairs noise level.

    I chose not to paint or finish the concrete walls and regret it now. I "could" go back and do all the painting in one day, but just am not motivated enough to do it. Also chose not to finish the floor and regret that as well. If you look at some people's shop photos on this site they are incredibly warm and bright. My grey concrete really soaks up the light.

    Had brother-in-law install a subpanel from the garage, then I did all the wiring after that. Ran all 12 gauge. Prepare to spend a lot of money on copper! Initially started with four 4-bulb 4ft flourescent fixtures and eight recessed halogen lights. Each halogen was over a tool/work area. That created way too many shadows and I have since replaced the halogen over my bench with another 4ft floresc. My outlets are run through 3/4 PVC conduit along the wall perimeter at about 4ft high. Also ran a few along the floor to feed TS, router, and joiner on seperate circuits. I basically don't walk over that area (couldn't anyways, tools/ducting are in the way) so to get from front of shop to back I can only go along one side.

    I have an Oneida cyclone in the corner, ducting running through ceiling diagonally across shop. I have one massive drop in the center to feed TS, router, jointer, and planer. That 6in PVC with 3 wye's takes up a LOT of space. It was pretty tough to give each machine the clearance it needed. I wouldn't commit to any placements until you know what you're doing with your ducting. It's so hard to get the ducting precisely where you need it, then you are left with trade offs - "Hmm, leave the duct and machine here and lose 2ft of outfeed clearance, or go buy $40 of additional fittings to make it work?"

    Finally, I only have one window and a door. Not a great setup for cross ventilation. Wish I had one more window. I was originally going to put in a giant bathroom-type exhaust fan but got nervous about drilling through my exterior brick.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by daniel lane View Post
    There are no windows in the basement, so it must be an artifact from the shrunken photo. (The west wall is below the deck, so a window wouldn't allow much light, anyway.) The wall is exposed, though, and I have often wondered what it would take to put in a window...
    Really? I thought that this:
    shop west.jpg
    was a window that had been blocked off. Sure looks like a window frame to me.

    As for light... It all depends on how wide your deck is, I think, and how large the window is. If the deck is sticking out 8' from the house, I think you'll still get plenty of light. If it is 25' out from the house... well I'm not so sure. If the basement is fully exposed, that means there is 8' or so of vertical space under the deck. How light is it if you stand under it against the house? That is what will shine in.

    I can't tell if the wall is block, concrete, or stud. If it is a wood framed wall, then adding a window is no big deal. If it is block or concrete it gets messier. Some folks would just rent a big gasoline-powered concrete saw and got to it, but I'd hire it out.

    ETA: I see your joists are perpendicular to the wall, so you'd need a nice beefy header there above any window.
    "It's Not About You."

  12. #12
    Something no one has commented on is finishing. You will need to setup a SEPARATE location to finish. Get some good fumes building up and the hot water heater will REALLY warm things up when the fumes ignite.

  13. #13
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    Daniel,

    My basement shop is nearly the identical size of yours. Mine is 12 X 23. I've been it for 15 years and I've rearranged it at least 6 times. I think I've finally gotten it into a confuiguration I'm happy with. I have some thoughts about your questions.

    1.) "Is there a good reason to insulate the concrete walls? We're in a temperate enough area that it's never been unpleasantly hot or cold in the basement."

    Insulation, studs and wallboard will cost you some valuable floor space. Nevertheless, the are probably two good reasons for insulating the walls. My walls are poured concrete. They shed fine grit constantly. I wish I'd painted them before I moved into the shop. Insualtion will take care of the problem. Also, my shop has two HVAC ducts. It stays very pleasant in the summer, but it can get chilly in the dead of winter, even with forced air heat. I use auxillary heat when I'm in the shop in cold months. I don't think I'd have this problem if I had insulated the walls.

    2.) Do I need to worry about dust getting into the utility space? I was thinking that I'd drywall (or wood panel) the shop side, and staple heavy plastic to the other side of the partition wall.

    My utility space is two steps up from the shop and down a 12 foot narrow "hall" for lack of a better term. I don't have trouble with dust in there. Your's may be a different story. I think your solution would take care of most, if not all of the dust migration problem. You might also consider investing in an air cleaner to get rid of the fine dust that is the real problem.

    3.) I've read several posts about sound insulation, and plan on insulating the ceiling and around the ductwork. If I'm going to wall off the utility space, should I plan on a standard 2x4 wall, or make it a 6" wall with staggered studs and extra insulation?
    Sub-question: Should I consider tearing out the shelves against the stairs and building an insulated wall there, too? The other side of the stairs is finished, but rarely used.

    My shop is directly below the kitchen/breakfast room/den. I do not have insulated ceilings and my family has never complained about the noise. I try not to run the planer or a router while thay are watching TV, but otherwise, I don't pay much attention to the noise. I've asked my wife several times if the noise bothers her and she says,"No."

    I have HVAC ductwork running actross the ceiling of my shop, so enclosing the ceiling would be problem for me. I also use the overhead floor joists for storage - primarily clamp storage, but I hang things from the joists too.

    As for the shelf area, I think it would be a good idea to wall off the stairwell from the shop. My stairwell is in the utility area I mentioned above and is removed from the workshop. My guess is that the noise and dust problems would be much greater if the stairwell were in or adjacent to the shop. It would be a direct conduit from the shop to the living area. For these reasons I think I would close it off. I think a 2X4 stud wall would be adequate. There are several types of sound insulation you can put in a 2X4 stud wall that should help. I think a 6" wall would be a big overkill.

    4.) Dust control is a major issue for me, since I'm in the house, but I'm worried about noise. I don't really have the money to spend on a giant 4-cyclone beast with twin turbocharged, water-cooled, 30hp motors, so I don't think noise will be too excessive, but I'm still worried. For space reasons, I'm thinking about building a small DC closet that I could heavily insulate into the utility space, but because of the proximity of the HVAC, I'd completely seal it from the utility space and vent it back into the workshop. Anyone see a problem with this?

    I don't have a dust collector. I use a shop vac (several of them) but it is a poor solution. I plan to add a cyclone in the near future - I've finally convinced myself that giving up the floor space to accommodate the cyclone is worth it. I wish I had your option to put it in a separate area and duct/vent it into the shop. If your dust collector is up to the task, I think your solution will work very well; it will save you floor space in the shop and get the noise out of the shop.

    5.) What am I not considering?

    Electrical - whoever said to double your planned outlets, especially the 220s, was dead right. I just added a sub panel to my shop and 5 new 220 outlets. You can never have enough.

    Floor - If I did it over again, I'd put in a hardwood floor. The concrete is a killer for legs, back and feet. After a full day on my feet in the shop I can hardly walk the next morning. Plus, concrete is not friendly to dropped tools. I have rubber mats, but those are only a marginal improvement. If you don't put in some kind of flooring, at least paint your concrete floor with a good floor epoxy. Do it now rather than later. It makes keeping the place clean much easier.

    Wood Storage - Again, you can never have enough. Plan it in advance. Stacking lumber, shorts and offcuts on the floor and against the wall is unsatisfactory. You always need whatever is underneath. If you can co-opt some of the wall space in the utility part of your basement for lumber shelving, great. It gets it out of the shop and saves working space.

    Sharpening Station - you need a dedicated sharpening station - especially if you use, or think you will get interested in, hand tools. If your sharpening gear is readily available with water/oil and the other necessaries at hand, you will be much more inclined to sharpen or touch up an edge than you will if you have to drag out all the stuff and put it away when you're finished. Plus a dedicated sharpening station keeps the mess contained and away from your work.

    Finally - don't nail anything down for a while. I've been in my shop 15 years, I've rearranged it a half dozen times and it's taken me 12 years to figure out what layout works and what doesn't - yeah, I know, I'm a little slow, but I would advise you to live in you shop a while before you decide finally how you want it arranged. What looks good on paper may not be so good in practice. Even if it is, you will probably figure out ways to make it better that will require moving stuff.

    Good luck. Building a shop is fun.

    Hank
    Last edited by Hank Knight; 06-04-2007 at 3:47 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Art Mulder View Post
    Really? I thought that this <pic> was a window that had been blocked off. Sure looks like a window frame to me.
    Ah, I see. Heh. I don't see that because I look at it every day. It isn't a window, it's a shelf suspended with vertical stringers and a couple of pieces of plywood below the shelf. Together, I can see how they look like a window frame!

    The vertical stringers are nailed with a single nail into the frame above (rather than attached to the concrete wall) and the shelf is the thin brown line almost in the center of your circle. The wide brown line is a cross brace that was nailed between the stringers to prevent them from swinging, again, since they are not attached to the concrete. Beneath that is half a cheap ping-pong table top (the green wood that sticks out to the left) that was left behind by the previous owner, and in front of THAT is a piece of hardboard that I bought to use on top of a workbench I haven't built yet.

    Can you tell there's a bunch of junk in the basement?

    As for the possibility of a window, I don't think I'm going to look into it. The deck sticks out about 15 feet, and beyond that are several tall, dense trees that provide a lot of shade. It'll be cheaper to make a "window" (with quotes) where I put a fluorescent bulb behind translucent material to make it look like a window. Or just live with overhead lighting, which is what I'll most likely do.

    By the way, all the existing shelves, the ancient desk with 10lb of paint on it (on which the mini lathe is sitting), the ping-pong stuff, the plastic dart board that is in one of the photos, all the spare paint, spare hardwood flooring, etc. is from the previous owner. I really should have insisted he empty the basement before we took posession.


    daniel
    Not all chemicals are bad. Without hydrogen or oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer.

  15. #15
    [*]Is there a good reason to insulate the concrete walls? We're in a temperate enough area that it's never been unpleasantly hot or cold in the basement.
    I wouldn't worry about insulating the walls. I would paint the walls white if they aren't already painted. It will make the shop brighter, help seal against moisture, and make dust cleanup easier. I would paint the floor for the same reasons.

    [*]Do I need to worry about dust getting into the utility space? I was thinking that I'd drywall (or wood panel) the shop side, and staple heavy plastic to the other side of the partition wall.
    I'd staple plastic up on the shop side of the wall and put the drywall or paneling right on top of the plastic. This way the plastic is less likely to get torn or ripped. You can caulk or tape around opennings (electrical, etc.) if needed.

    [*]I've read several posts about sound insulation, and plan on insulating the ceiling and around the ductwork. If I'm going to wall off the utility space, should I plan on a standard 2x4 wall, or make it a 6" wall with staggered studs and extra insulation?
    For sound insulation, staggered studs doesn't gain that much. Using double layers of drywall, or resilient chanel for hanging will help more.

    [*]Dust control is a major issue for me...
    Venting the air back to the shop is fine. However, keep in mind any back pressure on the return air will reduce suction at the other end.

    I find that much of the dust that escapes my basement shop is not airborn, but travels on shoes and clothing, so keep that in mind.

    [*]What am I not considering?
    Enough outlets?
    Lighting? (suggest 4' or 8' T8 flourescents)
    Paint the floor (already mentioned)
    Room to expand?

    Have fun!

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