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Thread: Looking for Someone to Make Sugar Maple Drum Shells

  1. #1

    Looking for Someone to Make Sugar Maple Drum Shells

    Hi there, Dave Loewen here. Listen, I have been doing some digging, and I stumbled acrross your site, and I am wondering if you might be able to help me out.

    THE PROBLEM
    I'm writing to you from Vancouver, BC CANADA, which is exactly the reason that I am posting here - Sugar Maple doesn't grow out here, and I need some of it. It's pretty standard issue for what I want to do because it is tough and looks as amazing as it sounds. What I really want is to find someone that was willing to turn it for me - making solid one ply true solid drum shells (yes the percussion instrument - drum set)

    I am looking to make drum shells out of solid pieces of Sugar Maple (not much different from the process of bowl-making I assume). Anyway, being that Sugar Maple isn't native to these here parts, I am trying to find someone who might be able to supply me with some wood to turn, or turn it for me and send me a completely finished (or roughly finished "shell" and I would bring it to completion on this end).

    GENERAL INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR
    The depth of shells (finished product) would be anywhere from 10" dia x 8" depth all the way up to 22" dia x 20 depth (with various sizes inbetewen). I understand that the later size would be quite difficult to get because of it's size, but I don't imagine that the smaller sizes would too much of a task.

    Just to give you an example so that you might be able to visualize my needs; my drum set has a 10"x10" tom drum, a 16"x14" floor tom drum, a 20"x20" bass (also called a kick) drum, and a 13"x7 snare drum (all sizes I just gave you are dia x depth). I think the bass drum has a thickness of 3/8" while all the other drums are 1/4 of an inch (although the snare may be up to 1/2" or even 5/8" thick).

    THE SOLUTION
    If you are interested in pursuing this further, get in touch with me and I'll pass my number along so we can talk. I am sure you have questions, as do I. I am willing to pay, so throw some figures my way and lets talk.

    Can somebody please help me out here by using your craftsmanship and talent to make me some shells (might be a reasonably profitable side business - the turning of the blanks and shipping of the shells to me that is...), or direct me to someone who could (either sell me blanks large enough or turn the appropriate sized blanks into roughly the correct sized shells that I would need)?

    Thanks for considering. Please ask any questions you have, and don't hesitate to drop me a line.


    Best to you,

    Dave Loewen
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    Benton Falls, Maine
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    5,480
    David - I'm not offering to help - yet.

    But I do have a few observations for which your responses might encourage others to jump in. Here goes:

    Please confirm that you're after open-ended cylinders.

    Please confirm that you're after cylinders that have been turned from one solid piece of stock.

    Please confirm that you will not consider a cylinder turned from glued-up stock ala stave construction.

    Since sound and tone is likely to be an issue for you, please confirm that the finished product should be 100% free of defects (nature's or ours).

    Please indicate if there is a Must-Be-In-Vancouver date.

    Thanks.
    Only the Blue Roads

  3. #3

    Clarification of what I am Looking For in Drum Shells

    Hi Andy, thanks for the encouragement to clarify - I had assumed that I'd have at least a few offers by now. Please read on everyone else.

    Andy is correct in all his observations. I am looking for open-ended cylinders that have been turned from one solid piece of stock and I will not consider a cylinder turned from glued-up stock (aka stave construction).

    Since sound and tone is the primary issue for me (aesthetics being second), the finished product should be 100% free of defects (nature's or yours).

    Now I think I'm starting to sound a little over-particular, but there is some flexibility here. As of right now, I do not have any dates to impose upon you, however the success of my drum kits (and our working relationship) will depend I suppose on the quality of the shells that you are producing. Regarding shipping, I could set up an account with Fedex and they could pick the shells up at your door to relieve some stress, and I am open to how and when you get paid.

    If you are interested, lets talk. Please don't be shy, there is some very decent money in this for the right craftsman.


    Thank you for considering,

    Dave

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
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    SE PA - Central Bucks County
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    David, what you're asking for presents some significant challenges to most turners including the required equipment to handle the sizes of things you want. One other thing...the nature of wood and moisture is going to require turning twice (at least)...once from the green log to oversize and then to final specifications after thorough drying. Final spec may require remounting several times, depending on the stability of the material. "That big" (diameter and depth) combined with "that thin" pretty well means there is going to be some extra shells necessary to make up for those that crack and distort significantly.

    While there are some folks here that turn professionally, the majority are hobbyists with smaller lathes. I'm only mentioning all this to keep things in perspective...it's one of the reasons that drum shells from solid stock are pretty rare!
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Lewiston, Idaho
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    David......as Jim stated........Turning each one of these from a single piece of wood may be a real challenge. First finding the right single piece of wood and 2nd getting it through the turning process without warpage, splits, etc.

    I'm not so sure that a glue up with a possible veneer added might be the more practical way to go.

    Good luck!
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  6. #6

    Drum Shell Challenges

    Hey guys, thanks for posting.

    Jim, to you first. You pretty much nailed it on the head, the log would need to be turned first leaving a couple inches of mean on the shell so that it could dry and then be turned a second time to achieve the final shape. I understand that most turners are hobbyists, but I am hoping that someone with the mind and the abilities and equipment, might step in and help me out.

    Ken, you mention the difficulty of turning open ended cylinders, and suggest that because of it's difficulty that I should consider the practically of veneered (multiple ply). There are several reasons that I want to move away from ply shells.

    1) They are very common, and as such everyone who can drill a hole and screw on hardware calls themselves a "Custom" drum company. This is grossly misleading. I designed my own hardware and want to make my own shells (so to speak). That is what "Custom" really means.

    And...

    2) Ply shells can only sound so good (if you know what I mean), and that really isn't that good. Seriously. there is so much glue used in a ply shell that the shells can't resonate freely. Glue doesn't sound so good/wood does. Let me illustrate. Let's take for example, a 14" diameter snare drum. 3.14 (pi) x 14" = 43.69' x 6" = 263.76 sq. inches x 9 glued plies = 2,373.84 sq." of glue used on a common ply snare. Glue is in fact it is a tone inhibitor. Wood is good, glue is dead.

    There is only 2 companies in Canada doing solid shells (and hundreds doing ply shells). One sells exclusively to a larger drum company, and the other is in Quebec CANADA... need I say more??? And the only other company that I know of is in Australia. None of them sell one offs to custom drum makers like myself.

    So in summary, ply shells are way to common (all made by the same guy at Keller Shells out of Cali I believe), they don't sound very good (no matter who you buy the shell from).

    True solid shells (we'll call them) are a bit rare, and I can only imagine that it's because not everyone has the guts or the cash to do it. I have the guts but not the cash (at least not enough to buy the set-up it would take to do what I want). And that's why I am trying to get hooked up with one of you. Listen, guys turn bowls all the time, all this is is a more cylindrical bowl with an extra hole in it. Wouldn't you simply 1) round the outside of the log, 2) hollow out the inside (within 2" so it could dry), 3) Let it dry/kiln dry it, 4) lathe the final shape and thickness of the shell, and 5) cut off the butt and sand the other edge (to match the first edge)? I don't turn, but this is how I can conceptualize doing it.

    Is there anyone out there that would take a crack at it? Let's try one shell. I know this can be done. Let's try a 13" dia x 6.5 depth and 1/2" thick. Anyone??? I am very serious about this, I'm just looking for someone willing to take a stab at it with me.
    Last edited by David Loewen; 06-17-2007 at 7:19 PM. Reason: Additional information

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    Northern Ohio
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    524
    I thought they were scraf jointed and glued. Not turned, but I do like the turning idea, but in todays market place its sounds expensive.

  8. #8
    Like how expensive? I need someone to give me an idea of what this would be worth to them.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Lewiston, Idaho
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    David.....what I was thinking was gluing up staves like wooden barrel staves of old and then turning them round. Then apply a veneero over the outside.


    The trouble as I see it is finding the "perfect" piece of wood. Then you rough turn it green......let it dry and then finish turn it. Wood as it dries can warp and/or crack.....This is what will make the process as you describe it extremely difficult and therefore extremely expensive.

    If you could stave it......you could use kiln dried wood.....rip them to the proper width and angles.....glue them up......Turn to thickness. It eliminates the possible warpage and cracking of green wood drying and it eliminates the 2 turning process and the time required to allow the wood to dry properly.....

    Good luck with you endeavors!
    Ken

    So much to learn, so little time.....

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Wimberley, Texas
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    David,
    You mention "ply" shells, which are multiple very thin layers, laminated together around a form. And wherein the glue joints may be a noticeable percentage of the shell wall thickness.

    Why not "stave" construction, in which the glue joints would be a small fraction of the total construction? Just wondering.

  11. #11

    Why Not Stave Shells?

    Hey guys, thanks for the suggestion to do it with staves, but I'll give you a couple of reasons.

    Really it all boils down to the glue, first of all a solid shell has no glue, a stave shell still uses a bit, though not nearly as much as a ply construction. Staves have multiple vertical seams (the number depends on the size of the drum (i.e. a 14" snare has 20 staves hence 20 seams) to me this is quite unsightly. And although people think quite highly of stave drum shells, they maintain an unnatural look. The use of multiple pieces of wood glued together still poses the potential problem of cracking (although perhaps not warping).

    So in short, although staves are neat, and some custom drum makers are making a living at it, it is not my intention. I have done incredible amounts of digging and definatley do want to do a true solid shell out of a single log - no seams, no glue.

    Thanks though, I appreciate the feedback and suggestions.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Wimberley, Texas
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    2,828

    Stave Construction

    David,
    Thanks for your response on stave construction. Assume that it is already done this way by others. Properly done, the glue joints will not crack, as they are typically stronger than the wood. What you propose is a challenge to the wood and the wood turner, and I wish you good luck in your endeavor.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Brentwood & Altamont, TN
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    David,

    I've watched this thread with interest. While it may seem relatively simple to make a wooden sleeve as others have mentioned, there are some challenges. First, as has been previously stated one would have to get intact maple logs to turn for the project and they would need to be green turned and then held for months to dry and then return. I doubt they would ever remain completely round but, that may not be an issue. My guess is that for one 13" drum sleeve it would probably be worth several hundred bucks. Now, if you could find a friend who turns in your area and supply him/her with the logs, you might make a deal.

  14. #14
    With the sizes that you want, I think they could be done, and you could take cores for the smaller ones from a large piece. The mechanics of turning aren't too bad, but I would think the prices would be huge, in the neighborhood of at least $200 for the smaller pieces. Finding the wood would be the hardest part. There are good turners in Vancouver (check out local wood stores, or the AAW for club and member listings) and ask them for help and/or suggestions. Some of the local woods might work well. I wouldn't think sugar maple would have very good resonation qualities. Mechanically, I would worry that the structure would be weak, without some sort of compression banding on top (which the drum head would probably do, and a band or 2 around the midddle and bottom. I don't know for sure, as I don't know drums.
    robo hippy

  15. #15
    Sorry, wish I have a lathe big enough to give it a try but the wait for the whole process which includes the drying, would be long. Most people do not have a kiln dryer handy and unless done correctly, would still crack and warp. I would think to try to turn at finished size, soak in PEG and then dry and finish to give quickest result. I do this quite often and no warping or cracking at finished size from wet wood. Just have to finsh at correct size and shape then immediately start soaking as the product tends to start drying on the lathe quickly.

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