Dust collection on circular saws with EZ system

[Dan Clark]

Hello all!
1) I am a VERY occasional woodworker without a dedicated workshop. I have to pull my cars out of my garage just to set ANYTHING up to work. (It's why I have chosen the EZ over the Festool system)

Michael,

Both systems have their benefits, but I chose Festool because it fit my needs better. And that's where I'm confused...

One of my primary needs is the same as yours - the need to quickly set up, use, and then store my garage "woodshop". That's one of Festool's greatest strengths!

Festool tools are stored in Systainers. Festool Systainers provide a compact, integrated storage system that is very portable and stackable. Festool makes accessory Systainers for router bits and Sortainers for parts and accessories storage. The make a special abrasives systainer with multiple inserts for storing sand paper. They even make systainers with diced inserts for storing non-Festool tools and one with a tool insert for storing tools.

With Systainers and Sortainers, you can stack a whole workshop of tools, accessories, and parts in about 4 square feet. They snap together to move them and for safe secure storage. For portability and access, Festool makes a cart for moving a stack of systainers around and a mobile "Systainer Port" with drawers for quick access to Systainers.

While Dino makes a good system of rails, he doesn't make tools. So you have to buy tools from some other company. And that means...

You're stuck finding a place to store tools with multiple, incompatible cases and boxes. AFAIK, Festool is the only vendor in the US to provide an integrated, stackable storage system for their tools.

Besides the systainers, all of the Festool work tables and work stands are compact and portable. Take a a look the Festool CMS and Precisio systems available in the rest of the world - completely portable. Take a look at the new Kapex SCMS - it's made for portability and uses a portable MFT for it's base.

Bottom line - besides dust collection, portability is one of the key underpinnings of the Festool system.

So I'm confused... Why do think EZ is better than Festool for a portable workshop?

Regards,

Dan.

[Gary Keedwell]

Oh no....Festool Police are here!!!

Gary K. (only kidding...don't spank me,please)

PS. I read OP 3 times and it seems like $ money is a big factor.

[Bob Childress]

Michael,

Based on your stated needs, I think you should go with the EZ system. The PC mag has decent DC, in my experience, and you won't break your budget. The EZ has a lot of fans and is apparently a good piece of gear with lots of room for growth as your needs change.

[Gary, speak to me! Gary? You alright?]

[Gary Keedwell]

Bob, I had to read your post again after I regained conscientiousness. Are you really the Honorary Bloke Guy?

( I won't tell any of the Aussies of your escapade)

Gary K.

[Michael Schwartz]

Here we go again, another E vs F war (just kidding BTW)

I throw out most portable tool cases anyway, takes too long to fit everything back into them.

If I need a specialized case I make my own

I don't buy tools based on the cases they come in

[Bob Childress]

Bob, I had to read your post again after I regained conscientiousness. Are you really the Honorary Bloke Guy?

( I won't tell any of the Aussies of your escapade)

Gary K.

Yes, that's really me. But you know, as much as I love Festool in all its manifestations, it isn't always the optimum answer for everyone. Especially if you are a "very occasional WWer" as the OP said, and budget is a big consideration. While I have been and will continue to be a Festool fanatic, I have never bashed any of Dino's products and don't intend to start. AFAIK, they are well-made, accurate, and affordable.

[Gary Keedwell]

Yes, that's really me. But you know, as much as I love Festool in all its manifestations, it isn't always the optimum answer for everyone. Especially if you are a "very occasional WWer" as the OP said, and budget is a big consideration. While I have been and will continue to be a Festool fanatic, I have never bashed any of Dino's products and don't intend to start. AFAIK, they are well-made, accurate, and affordable.

I hear you Bob. I have made it a habit to not knock tool brands.(say that fast 3 times lol) I don't even put down Craftsmen tools. I believe there are tools for for every budget. I have to admit though, as much as I admire Festool tools, it took me a long, long ,long...time to "get over" the sticker shock. ( am I doing better Bob?)

Gary K.

[Burt Waddell]

Help me understand something about, "Shop vacs". I have an old Craftsman jumbo sized vac that could suck-start a Harley. I equipped it with a super fine point something something micron filter. I use one of those vac start switches from Craftsman. So my question is, how is the Fein and Festool vacs better at sucking? I'm not trying to be argumentative here at all. But other than possibly lasting longer and certainly looking better, how do they perform better? Do they suck harder? Do they filter better than mine with that special filter? I'm not saying that they don't do any of these things better, I'm just curious if they do, or do they just cost a lot more and look better? I'm not in the position to replace mine any time soon but when I do I plan to get the best bang for my buck.

Bruce

Let me just add one other point. When I was of buying a Fein Vac, I thought that was just to much money so I went to lowes to check the specs on Shop Vac. The Highest suction rating on the shop vacs was 65 inches of water. The Mid range Fein that I bought has a suction of 95 and I believe the larger fein is about 104. Festool suction ratings are equal to or better than the Fein.

Is the by pass cooling that Brad mentioned important? Yes - Very. In a period of less than 6 months I lost two vacuums because they got full, got hot and burned out.

Burt

[Bob Childress]

( am I doing better Bob?)

Gary K.

The doctor says: "Yes. Prognosis good. Full recovery expected."

[Michael Van Voorhis]

Michael,

Both systems have their benefits, but I chose Festool because it fit my needs better. And that's where I'm confused...

One of my primary needs is the same as yours - the need to quickly set up, use, and then store my garage "woodshop". That's one of Festool's greatest strengths!

Festool tools are stored in Systainers. Festool Systainers provide a compact, integrated storage system that is very portable and stackable. Festool makes accessory Systainers for router bits and Sortainers for parts and accessories storage. The make a special abrasives systainer with multiple inserts for storing sand paper. They even make systainers with diced inserts for storing non-Festool tools and one with a tool insert for storing tools.

With Systainers and Sortainers, you can stack a whole workshop of tools, accessories, and parts in about 4 square feet. They snap together to move them and for safe secure storage. For portability and access, Festool makes a cart for moving a stack of systainers around and a mobile "Systainer Port" with drawers for quick access to Systainers.

While Dino makes a good system of rails, he doesn't make tools. So you have to buy tools from some other company. And that means...

You're stuck finding a place to store tools with multiple, incompatible cases and boxes. AFAIK, Festool is the only vendor in the US to provide an integrated, stackable storage system for their tools.

Besides the systainers, all of the Festool work tables and work stands are compact and portable. Take a a look the Festool CMS and Precisio systems available in the rest of the world - completely portable. Take a look at the new Kapex SCMS - it's made for portability and uses a portable MFT for it's base.

Bottom line - besides dust collection, portability is one of the key underpinnings of the Festool system.

So I'm confused... Why do think EZ is better than Festool for a portable workshop?

Regards,

Dan.

Mr. Clark,

Your points are all valid. I like the Festool lineup. I own a Rotex sander and in the future will probably buy one of their DC systems. I do not think EZ is a better system for everybody. (Dino may disagree. ) I believe EZ is better suited for me. Let me explain.

I already have a small fold-away Workmate bench that I use so the MFT isn't needed. The EZ system breaks down into one rail and small square able to be used anywhere. Doesn't the FT rail need to work with their table? I could be wrong there. I like the idea of a non-proprietary blade system. The DC on the PC is almost up to Festool standards. I have heard that the plunge system on the TS55 can sometimes be difficult with longer cuts. (I have shorter arms) And while I believe in the motto "Buy a tool once and buy it for life," I also believe in investing my funds where they will be enjoyed the most. Since I will be cutting wood once every two years (not every two days like some of you ) I could not justify the expense of the Festool saw and rail system over the EZ system with a different saw for the money. I do not think I would appreciate the additional quality of saw over the less expensive alternatives.

[Dan Clark]

Oh no....Festool Police are here!!!

Gary K. (only kidding...don't spank me,please)

PS. I read OP 3 times and it seems like $ money is a big factor.

Gary,

Not, of course, to be confused with the situations where the EZ police show up.

Yep, if money is a factor, there are cheaper options. While Fine Homebuilding Magazine's guide rail comparison rated Festool as the top guide rail, they rated the Red-Line Cutting Guide from Hartville Tool as best value. If I wanted to save money, the Red-Line Cutting Guide would be my choice.

Regards,

Dan.

[Dan Clark]

Mr. Clark,

Your points are all valid. I like the Festool lineup. I own a Rotex sander and in the future will probably buy one of their DC systems. I do not think EZ is a better system for everybody. (Dino may disagree. ) I believe EZ is better suited for me. Let me explain.

I already have a small fold-away Workmate bench that I use so the MFT isn't needed. The EZ system breaks down into one rail and small square able to be used anywhere. Doesn't the FT rail need to work with their table? I could be wrong there. I like the idea of a non-proprietary blade system. The DC on the PC is almost up to Festool standards. I have heard that the plunge system on the TS55 can sometimes be difficult with longer cuts. (I have shorter arms) And while I believe in the motto "Buy a tool once and buy it for life," I also believe in investing my funds where they will be enjoyed the most. Since I will be cutting wood once every two years (not every two days like some of you ) I could not justify the expense of the Festool saw and rail system over the EZ system with a different saw for the money. I do not think I would appreciate the additional quality of saw over the less expensive alternatives.

Michael,

What is important is to find something that is best for you. That's bottom line.

Regarding the Festool guide rail, it can be used anywhere. You don't need an Festool MFT table. You just lay the guide rail on the wood, slap your Festool saw on top, and cut. I've used my Festool rails with wood laying on top of foam, on top of other plywood, between a couple of 2X4's, etc. Lots of choices. Depends on the situation.

That said, you still need a Festool saw to use the Festool guide rails. If you have other saws that you like, then the EZ system or Red-Line guide rails will work fine to.

Whatever works best for you is most important.

Regards,

Dan.

[Michael Schwartz]

Michael,

Regarding the Festool guide rail, it can be used anywhere. You don't need an Festool MFT table. You just lay the guide rail on the wood, slap your Festool saw on top, and cut
.
Dan.

Same thing with the EZ system is you don't need the bridge, and if you want to use the rails off the bridge, it takes 30 seconds to disconnect them.

You can also "slap" the ez system on the wood "slap" your saw top and cut.

One of the problems with the rubber anti chip edges of the fesstool, are that while they to help secure the guide, it is harder to finely adjust it to your cut line.

There is rubber non skid tape available for the EZ rails, and it is good when working with flooring.

The smart clamps are fast and easy to setup, and there is no need to clamp at all when working with the square or repeaters. When working with the square and cabinet maker, or with the repeaters there is no need to mark out the cut, and positioning the rail is foolproof.

I have invested nearly a thousand dollars in the EZ smart system, I own the repeaters/cabinet maker as well as a full blown power bench with bridge. I have abslolutely no regrets. I looked at the fesstool system carefully and I hate to say this, but there are other manufacturers of fine tools out there as well other than fesstool.

The EZ system combined with the right saw is good to go within about 20 minutes of opening the box.

[Dan Clark]

Same thing with the EZ system is you don't need the bridge, and if you want to use the rails off the bridge, it takes 30 seconds to disconnect them.

You can also "slap" the ez system on the wood "slap" your saw top and cut.

One of the problems with the rubber anti chip edges of the fesstool, are that while they to help secure the guide, it is harder to finely adjust it to your cut line.

There is rubber non skid tape available for the EZ rails, and it is good when working with flooring.

The smart clamps are fast and easy to setup, and there is no need to clamp at all when working with the square or repeaters. When working with the square and cabinet maker, or with the repeaters there is no need to mark out the cut, and positioning the rail is foolproof.

I have invested nearly a thousand dollars in the EZ smart system, I own the repeaters/cabinet maker as well as a full blown power bench with brige. I have abslolutely no regrets. I looked at the fesstool system carefully and I hate to say this, but there are other manufacturers of fine tools out there as well other than fesstool.

Michael,

Why are you telling me this? Besides having several errors about Festool, your post sounds quite defensive - like you need to prove that the EZ system is good.

I've already stated that EZ was a good system and have not stated that Festool is the only good tool out there. Further, nothing I said indicates anything about what EZ can or can not do.

I've limited my comments to what I KNOW Festool can do based on personal experience or based on reputable sources like Fine Homebuilding. I suggest you do likewise. Before making definitive statements about Festool (or any other tool), try them rather than just "look at" them.

Have a nice day,

Dan.

p.s., you spent nearly $1,000 on EZ?!? Sounds expensive to me. I have a lot less than that invested in Festool Guide Rails!

[Gary Keedwell]

If I wanted to save money, the Red-Line Cutting Guide would be my choice.

Regards,

Dan.[/quote]
Dan, Have you tried the Red-Line ? If you want to save money, why would you go with the Red-Line? Why not the E-Z line?

Gary K.