Spray Equipment

[Steve Milito]

I'm not sure which forum to put this, I hope this is right.
My first project has been Shop / garage cabinets. My wife decided we should move after I started the Cabs, so my house is on the market. Thus, they need to be finished, and I'm getting to the point where I need to ponder finishing them. There are about 18 linear feet of cabinets. I decided it would be a good time to learn to spray.

I decided I like to go the turbine route because I don't own a compresser big enough for a conversion gun, I plan to install a good size one in the new shop, and I don't want to buy something that will need to be replaced in 8 months. Additionally, the portability of the turbine unit might be handy in painting parts of the 3 story house we are buying.

Here are the questions:
3, 4, or 5 stages and why?
Who makes the best guns and are they interchangable?
Gravity feed or siphon?
Can I use a pressure pot?
Any comments on Capsray vs Fuji vs others?
Anything other I should know or ask?

Steve

[Larry Fox]

Steve


Steve, you have a lot of questions there and I will do my best to answer some of them. That said, the best piece of advise I can give you is to call Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishing and talk it through with him. He sells top-notch gear and is very helpful. I just bought a p-pot based conversion outfit from him and he spent a lot of time discussing options with me. So, by the numbers:

- 3, 4, or 5 stages and why?

In general, buy a turbine with as many stages as you can afford. The more stages, the higher the airflow and the higher the air pressure is at the spray gun. One and two-stage units are best for thin finishes. A three-stage turbine can handle most stains, varnishes and water-based finishes, although latex will have to be thinned. Prior to my current setup I had a Fuji 3-stage turbine and it did fine with alcohol shellac, wb dye stain, thinned oil-based paint but struggled a bit to push some of the heavier-bodied WB topcoats like Target USL and Target Conversion Varnish. For those, I had to thin 5-10%. In summary: More stages will give you more versatility.

- Who makes the best guns and are they interchangeable?

Very subjective question and I am sure you will get lots of opinions on this one. I owned a Capspray Maxim II for quite a while and it was a very nice gun but a bit bulky. Jeff sells Walcom, Accuspray, Asturo, Qualspray (his own brand I believe) and they seem to all have a very good reputation. Wagner also seems to get mentioned a lot as a nice gun. That said, I only have experience with the Capspray and now (albeit very limited) Walcom. As far as their being interchangeable, I believe that they are as long as you match the air requirements (pressure and volume) of the gun to the specs of the turbine. Gun doesn’t care where the air is coming from so long as it gets what it needs and the turbine doesn’t care where it sends the air. One thing you need to watch out for is hooking a non-bleeder gun to a turbine setup for a bleeder-style gun. If you do this, you will likely need to modify the turbine to vent. There are instructions on the Fuji site for doing this if you are working with a Fuji turbine. Not doing it is likely to burn up the turbine.

- Gravity feed or siphon

Depends on what you are doing with it. For spraying a bunch of cabinets, I would say neither. In that case I would recommend a pressure-pot based system. This allows you to remotely locate the finish (read most of the weight) which will also allow you to spray with the gun upside down. I think you will find it difficult to maneuver a bulky siphon-feed gun in a tight cabinet.

- Can I use a pressure pot

See above. I have no experience with a turbine-based PP system (only conversion system) so can’t really say for sure how to set it up. I am sure others who are more qualified can comment on this.

- Any comments on Capsray vs Fuji vs others

As I mention above I had a Fuji 3-stage and it performed very well and I also liked the Capspray Maximm II gun that I had. By all accounts Capspray turbines are also good performers. I see the Capspray 8100 and 9100 turbines for sale on eBay for reasonable prices quite frequently. I believe the 8100 is a 3-stage and the 9100 is a 4-stage. Fuji enjoys a very good reputation and their new Q4’s seem to be very nice setups. Might be worth a call to them to discuss your needs and options if you are considering that route. Last time I called, the owner answered the phone and spent considerable time talking with me despite the fact that he knew there was no sale there as we were discussing a unit I already owned. That is good service.

- Anything other I should know or ask?

Generally speaking, turbines are noisy – annoyingly so. Most have roughly the same setup as a vacuum cleaner and sound like them as well. I find this sound annoying and it really got on my nerves after a while. The air coming out of some of them is hot. Buy a flexible “whip” which makes it a lot easier to maneuver the gun around.

These are things that I can think of at this time. I am sure others who have more experience can provide additional information.

[Greg Robbins]

What type of finish are you applying to the cabinets?

[Christof Grohs]

Ask the same question at http://www.homesteadfinishing.com in the forum area. That is Jeff Jewitt's site, he knows everything about finishing and equipment.

[Aaron Beaver]

Ask the same question at http://www.homesteadfinishing.com in the forum area. That is Jeff Jewitt's site, he knows everything about finishing and equipment.

I don't have one, but I have heard good things about Accuspray and Jeff Jewitt.

Larry, can you not spray with the gun upside down on either one (gravity or siphon)?

[Larry Fox]

Aaron, you are correct that you can't with either of the gravity or siphon. However, when I made that point I was refering to a pp-based setup (where you can - see original response).

Edit: Aaron, I apologize - I misread your post. You were asking a question and not making a statement. It is my understanding that you can't do it at all with a gravity gun as the finish is at the top of the cup when inverted and it needs to be at the bottom for gravity to feed it into the gun.

For the siphon, you kinda sorta can (depending on what is upside down at any particunar time). If you are simply rotating it 180-degrees and pointing it straight up it will work if 1) you can keep the pickup tube in the finish and 2) if the finish does not block the cup-inlet. If by upside down you mean the bottom of the cup pointing straight up, no, that will not work because the pickup is not in the finish AND the air-inlet is blocked.

[Bob Barkto]

I've used Accuspray guns for close to twenty years. I've used Apollo and Fuji as well.
Everyone I know who has used them agrees that Accuspray atomize the best of all the turbine guns they have tried.
All the head to head comparisons I've seen say the same.
The 10 and 10g are highly reccommended for not too many $$.
Avoid the bleeder models, especially if spraying WB coatings.

If you need to spray upside down with a siphon or gravity gun you can get the 3M or DeVilbiss cup systems.

A pressure pot setup is nice for production work and accessibility but is wasteful of material and is not an easy setup to change material in the middle of a job. You have some many feet of hose and fittings to purge and clean everytime. You'll also need an impressive turbine with built in compressor or a separate compressor to pressurize the pot.

Regular turbines.. pick one.
Fuji sells a (slightly) quieter model now.
AFAIK the blower assemblies on all the talked about brands are made by the same company.
Find the capacity you need and start comparing price, service, parts etc.

Hope this is helpful.