Table saw recommendation?

[Richard Alexander]

I hate to even ask this but there are just too many choices out there. I've searched this site, Epinions, Amazon, etc but haven't gotten much closer in choosing.

I currently have a Ryobi 3100. I use it for woodworking, mostly small stuff but I would like to start builiding larger chests and such. The Ryobi has been a fine tool but I don't care much for the miter setup and it is not as solid as I would like. I would also prefer a bigger work area.

I would like to spend $600 to $800 but will save up if needed. Most importantly, I don't want to be feeling the need to upgrade again in three or four years.

I've been looking at Lowes, Home Depot, and Woodcraft as well as online. The saw I'm closest to getting is the Jet 708482K. It's bigger and has the cast iron wings and a better miter and fence. I am also considering the Grizzly 1023 but the fact that their are five versions of it within two or three hundred dollars of each other is just confusing and it is a little expensive. Plus I'm personally unfamiliar with the brand.

Finally, I'm also considering the Rigid 10" saw at BORG. My main concern here is the quality. It doesn't seem like much of a step up from the Ryobi but I could be wrong.

I know it's a personal thing but I would like to hear any opinions on this. I've considered holding out for a cabinet saw but it's probably more than I really need.

[Vic Damone]

Richard, What voltage do you have available? Do you have enough space for an outfeed table? Dust collection? Do you need mobility?

If you can wait I think many of the manufactures will be coming out with riving knife equipped saws. Maybe someone else can comment on this.

Vic

[Mike Heidrick]

Richard, look for a used cabinet saw. You can find them for the $600-$800 price range. Check the local craigslist ads and local papers and auctions. Be patient and you will get a dream saw. Your $800 would have bought you a brand new Unisaw with 30" fence shipped 6 months ago from amazon. Keep an eye on them as well - sometimes they go crazy with their sale prices on the big Delta and some of their Powermatic tools. Patience is the key but know when to commit to buy and pull the trigger.

[Clint Winterhalter]

Richard,
Rigid makes nice saws, so does Jet and Grizzly.
The jet your looking at is a contractor style (open cabinet / motor hangs out the back) with a 1.5hp motor. I'm guessing that the Rigid unit is similar. Both saws should run off a standard wall outlet. The trunnion (thing that holds the blade) is mounted to the table on most contractor saws. The Trunnion is mounted to the cabinet on a cabinet saw. Cabinet mounted trunions tend to be more heavy duty than table mounted. The Jet can be set to run on 230 / single phase (The Rigid more than likely can be too). The Grizzly is a 3hp cabinet saw (closed cabinet / motor mounted inside the cabinet) that requires a 20 amp 230 circuit. Depending on what power you have available, it could be a key decision in what saw you get.

As Tim Alan would saw, MORE POWER IS BETTER. Not alway, But more never hurts. Depending on what you plan to do with the saw, 1.5HP should be fine. A ton of Creekers (ME up until recently) did just fine with a 1.5HP contractor saw. A good blade and a decent feed rate will make a world of difference on a contractor / heck any saw for that matter.

Dust collection is generally easier with a cabinet saw. It can be done well on a contractor if you have a good dust collector and buy / build baffles etc.

Once you figure out the POWER and STYLE OF SAW (Cabinet or Contractor) Spend some time looking at the fence. I spent $279 to upgrade the fence on my old $500 Craftsman saw (Ouch).

Other saws worth taking a peek at: Craftsman Saws (Zip Code Saws) built by Orion. You can normally get them for a decent price. They come with a genuine Bies fence. A bunch of Creekers own them and are very happy with them.

The 1023 is a great saw for the price. Your right you can get a bunch of different versions. You can get 54" rails. A router table in the wing etc. Its stuff you can add later if your budget doesn't currently allow. I've got the Shop Fox version of the 1023 and I've been very happy with it.

One other thing to consider. I think your Ryobi 3100 is a right tilt unit. You will find a ton of different opinions regarding which is better. Right Tilt vs. Left tilt. My advice. Get what you learned / are use to. I started with a left tilt and stuck with it when I upgraded. My brain can't deal with change sometimes!

Good luck!
Let us know what you end up with!

Clint

[Dan Drager]

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0444Z

I LOVE mine. I check it regularly, but it hasn't needed one adjustment since the day I set it up. Run it with a WWII and there is nothing it cannot cut safely and cleanly.

[Joe Jensen]

I'll offer a different idea. Just to level set, I started in my dad's shop with a 1940s Sear contractors saw. My first saw was a Unisaw, then a PM66, and now a SawStop. Clearly I'm a cabinet saw guy. Having said that, I'm not sure how much you gain by upgrading from your Ryobi to something in the $600-800 range unless you find a good used Unisaw or Jet cabinet saw.

Are you looking for more power for ripping solid woods, or someting to better process panels?

I have a SawStop now which I love. I also recently bought a Festool TS75 and guide rail to break down sheet goods. Getting a good circular saw and guide rail might be an alternative and then keep your current saw?

My first choice, a good used Unisaw or equivalent. Second choice a guided cicular saw setup. Far distant last choice would be a new $600-800 saw..joe

[scott spencer]

A jump to a full blown 3hp cabinet saw offers the biggest step up and the most advantages in performance and function. The downside is the upfront expense and the requirement of 220v. I'd encourage you to take that step if those two obstacles can be overcome.

If not, then a hybrid is a logical choice...they offer many of the same advantages of a cabinet saw, but will run on a standard 110v circuit. There's really no downside compared to a traditional contractor saw with the motor hanging out the back, and several advantages are associated with not having an external motor...smaller footprint, better DC, shorter drive belt, more mass, no lifting hazard from the motor. There even a couple that have cabinet mounted trunnions for easy alignment (Steel City and the Orion made Craftsman hybrids). There are models from Jet, Grizzly, Delta, GI, Craftsman, Shop Fox, Craftsman, Steel City, DeWalt, Hitachi, Sunhill, and we're likely to see many more in the future as the outboard motor becomes obsolete.

[Jim Podsedly]

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0444Z

I LOVE mine. I check it regularly, but it hasn't needed one adjustment since the day I set it up. Run it with a WWII and there is nothing it cannot cut safely and cleanly.

I second the Grizzly G0444Z. I have had mine over two years with no issues at all. Knock on hardwood!

[Bill White]

Not to hijack, but what are you and Dan doing about dust collection on the Griz.? I just got mine and am concerned about correct baffles as well as the splitter/guard issue.
Any thoughts here?
Thanks,
Bill

[Chuck Lenz]

Baffles ? Splitter guard issue ? I'm lost.

[Art Mann]

Finally, I'm also considering the Rigid 10" saw at BORG. My main concern here is the quality. It doesn't seem like much of a step up from the Ryobi but I could be wrong.

I have owned the Ridgid 3650 contractor saw and I have used a Ryobi that belongs to a woodworking buddy. I have enough experience with each to offer a realistic comparison. Let me assure you that the Ridgid is a HUGE upgrade to the Ryobi by every measure I can think of. It is a fine contractor saw that really has no quality issues. Having said that, if I were you, I would hold out for a hybrid saw such as the Craftsman or almost identical Steel City or a full 3 HP cabinet saw. I have two issues with the Ridgid 3650. (1) the dust collection is fair to poor. The little 2 1/2 inch port on the saw shroud is not adequate and only catches maybe half the sawdust with a good shop vac when used heavily. (2) The 1.5 HP motor is adequate, but just barely so. I have not run into a job the 3650 wouldn't do with a good thin kerf blade, but I would like to have more power. The motor sticking out the back is awkward to many people but my shop is large enough that it hasn't been a problem.

[Chuck Lenz]

In defense of Contractors saws. I don't get some of the gripes that the motor hanging out the back gets in the way. Atleast 90% of the time I have some kind of board support like a roller stand behind the saw. Good dust collection can be a challenge, but I've got that solved.

[Bill White]

Chuck, my question was about the baffles you mentioned in you email about dust collection. Rather than starve the dust collector, you installed a "baffle" behind the saw blade.
The splitter issue is in regard to my wish to find better kick-back protection.
Thanks,
Bill

[Randal Stevenson]

I have owned the Ridgid 3650 contractor saw and I have used a Ryobi that belongs to a woodworking buddy. I have enough experience with each to offer a realistic comparison. Let me assure you that the Ridgid is a HUGE upgrade to the Ryobi by every measure I can think of. It is a fine contractor saw that really has no quality issues. Having said that, if I were you, I would hold out for a hybrid saw such as the Craftsman or almost identical Steel City or a full 3 HP cabinet saw. I have two issues with the Ridgid 3650. (1) the dust collection is fair to poor. The little 2 1/2 inch port on the saw shroud is not adequate and only catches maybe half the sawdust with a good shop vac when used heavily. (2) The 1.5 HP motor is adequate, but just barely so. I have not run into a job the 3650 wouldn't do with a good thin kerf blade, but I would like to have more power. The motor sticking out the back is awkward to many people but my shop is large enough that it hasn't been a problem.

Which Ryobi did he have?

The BT3xxx series is vastly superior to their homeowner BT(15/20) series.
To the original poster

Like others have said elsewhere here, How much do you do at a 90% angle to the table, verse how much do you do at other angles? This could help you determine a direction (riving knife verse splitter).
Your already using what became a hybrid (riving knife, dust collection) with a sliding table, I would then lean (if your comfortable with it) toward a hybrid.
You say bigger projects, does this mean more sheet good? If so, I to would recommend a Guided circular saw system, then keep your current saw until your used to having both. (stashing money and keeping an eye on used) You may find someone retiring and getting rid of their cabinet saw, or you may go with just the guided saw setup. (depends on your comfort and needs)

[scott spencer]

In defense of Contractors saws. I don't get some of the gripes that the motor hanging out the back gets in the way. Atleast 90% of the time I have some kind of board support like a roller stand behind the saw. Good dust collection can be a challenge, but I've got that solved.

The hybrids are essentially a more modern solution that has addressed many of the common issues of a contractor saw. I can't speak for others Chuck, but my basic tendency to suggest a hybrid over a contractor saw design stems from the fact that the outboard motor offers no advantage over an enclosed motor unless you need to remove it often, but it does have several disadvantages. I see the contractor saw as an outdated and soon to be obsolete design. Whereas the hybrid design essentially offers no significant downside. As you've pointed out, many of those disadvantages can be successfully worked around to some degree, with some effort. But even with my contractor saw enclosed for dust collection, outfitted with PALS, and with an outfeed table installed, it was still capable of lifting up my workbench when beveled and knocking the alignment out of whack....a non-issue for an enclosed motor. A shorter drive belt is another advantage of the hybrid. Also, many hybrids pack some extra mass that comes in handy too.

The hybrid is basically a better mousetrap IMHO...I see the hybrid vs contractor saw debate as similar to fuel injectors vs carburators, riving knife vs splitter, or power steering vs manual, etc... for most of us the newer technology is simply a more elegant solution.

Contractor saws are very capable of the task at hand, but for a new purchase, rarely would I choose a contractor saw over a hybrid design without some justification such as a big price difference, feature difference, much longer warranty, availability, dealer support, etc.