First Sale-How to price?

[Jerry Ingraham]

I've been turning bowls for a couple years now and picked up pen turning this spring. The pens have really been a blast and are very well received by those who receive them. Almost all of my wood has been free, so most of my bowls are cost free (except for my time and a little finish cost). We live in the apple capitol of the world and the supply of fruitwood is almost inexhaustable.

After dinner a few weeks ago, my wife and I walked into a small decorator shop/stationery store. I purposefully went in to see if they had any turned pens for sale. They did not. All they had were some machine made, mass produced pens. When I told the lady (owner) what I do, she got very excited and wanted me to bring some pens in for consignment. We also discussed bowls, and of course, she would like some of those as well!

Now this may sound great but I'm struggling with how to price these things, especially the bowls. The pens aren't so bad, probably $20-30 for slimlines, and $30+ for cigars and others. The bowls, however, I have no idea how to price. As mentioned, I have nearly nothing in cost for these things but don't want to give them away either. Nor do I believe that my work is some sort of elite, art gallery quality! Any way, I'm hoping that you all can give me some advice as to how to price things.

By the way, the proceeds are going toward the introduction of mustard into my shop!

Thanks,
Jerry

[Curt Fuller]

I think you should consider pricing somewhat higher than you've suggested. Nicely turned wood pens are one of a kind keepsakes that are worth more than 20-30 bucks. Maybe the slimlines are $30 pens but the two piece pens are worth at least $50. As for bowls, they depend on size, character of the wood, etc., but don't undersell yourself.

[George Guadiane]

I've been turning bowls for a couple years now and picked up pen turning this spring. The pens have really been a blast and are very well received by those who receive them. Almost all of my wood has been free, so most of my bowls are cost free (except for my time and a little finish cost). We live in the apple capitol of the world and the supply of fruitwood is almost inexhaustable.

After dinner a few weeks ago, my wife and I walked into a small decorator shop/stationery store. I purposefully went in to see if they had any turned pens for sale. They did not. All they had were some machine made, mass produced pens. When I told the lady (owner) what I do, she got very excited and wanted me to bring some pens in for consignment. We also discussed bowls, and of course, she would like some of those as well!

Now this may sound great but I'm struggling with how to price these things, especially the bowls. The pens aren't so bad, probably $20-30 for slimlines, and $30+ for cigars and others. The bowls, however, I have no idea how to price. As mentioned, I have nearly nothing in cost for these things but don't want to give them away either. Nor do I believe that my work is some sort of elite, art gallery quality! Any way, I'm hoping that you all can give me some advice as to how to price things.

By the way, the proceeds are going toward the introduction of mustard into my shop!

Thanks,
Jerry

For starters, you have to set aside the idea of "free wood." There could easily come a day when the wood you want ISN'T free, then your costs go way up and it is ALWAYS harder to raise your prices (no matter how reasonable you are trying to be) than it is to lower them if the market won't carry your pricing structure.
Go to other places that actually sell items like yours and compare. Be honest, is the work and/or wood better than yours, bigger, smaller?
Once you get a baseline, look at the shop you are going to sell in. How does it compare to the other shops. Is it as nice, nicer? Each of those things should be considered (and lots more, I am sure) before you arrive at a price, then agree on a percentage that you will receive and a payment schedule for any sold items.
Good Luck!

[Patrick Taylor]

Couple of things I've heard, but not a lot of experience myself:
1. some people use 3x materials for pricing pens. It's a quick way of adding in your shop time and miscellaneous costs. Others itemize the materials, time by an hourly rate, utility, shop and tool costs averaged over x number of pens per time period, etc.

2. For bowls, I've heard $10/inch as a starting point, but that seems to high for a simple straight-grained bowl, and too low for a wild burl. It might work as a middle ground though.

Congrats on the recognition! Keep in mind the difference between your price and the retail price (after the consignment markup) and don't cheat yourself. I think you have to let the retail price be higher than your direct price, simply because they have additional overhead to cover.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Jerry you have got some good advice. Do not sell yourself short. My slimlines go for $30 and cigar, Sierra's, El Grande's are $50 up. Some of my fountain pen and pencil sets go for $125. For utility bowls I go $5 per inch and show bowls as I call them are $7 per inch. Sales are ok especially in this Agriculturial community. George gave you some good advice. It is easier to lower your price than to raise it.

[Robert McGowen]

Hi Jerry,

Congratulations on your new business! The only thing that I would add is that you need to make sure that you have a clear picture of selling the items yourself at a show or such and having a business sell them for you. The business owner is going to add anywhere from 50-100% on top of what he paid you for the item. He will be selling the pens that he purchased from you for $25 to the public for $50. The difference is, of course, to cover his profit, time, insurance, employee costs, theft, etc., etc. My best bet would be to sell them off of some sort of set commission so that the higher the price the shop sells them for, the more you in turn make. This in turn will allow the shop owner to carry more items of yours as he doesn't really have anything to lose except shop space and everything to gain if the item sells well. Just my thoughts. Good luck!

[Kevin McPeek]

I won't add much to what others have said except for what I heard in a demonstration by Stuart Batty. The more useless the bowl, the more you can charge for it.

[Ernie Kuhn]

Hi Jerry,
Adding to what Kevin suggested, placing your items with a retailer on commission might be just the ticket. You should discuss "list price" with retailer and what you are willing to take at "wholesale". In fairness to the retailer, if you sell at craft shows or privately/over the internet, your selling price should not be less than the retailer will sell for e.g. don't undercut the retailer on "private" sales. I have been told that some galleries work on a 40/60 split, 40% to gallery, 60% to artist. And, as previously stated, your cost of material (it isn't always going to be free) should not be part of the equation unless your are purchasing some exotics. More importantly, what's the "value" of the item in your local market? Again, discussion with the retailer might be in order.
I would be interested to see what "turns out" (sorry for the pun) since I have a couple of local wineries interested in bottle stoppers.
Ernie

[Larry McCumber]

For utility bowls I go $5 per inch and show bowls as I call them are $7 per inch.

Bernie,
Is that diameter, circumference, or heigth?

Thanks,
Larry

[William Bachtel]

can't speak for Bernie, but I believe he means dia.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Bernie,
Is that diameter, circumference, or heigth?

Thanks,
Larry

Yes Larry that is diameter.

Here in town I am talking with the local floral/craft store. She told me she would like me to bring some turnings down to display. She said we could go 25/75 split. I thought that was pretty good. The local arts council would like me to bring some stuff down and they want 30/70 split.

[Frank Kobilsek]

Jerry
Congrats on your pending arrangement. But you come to the hardest part of the abyss. Learning the skew is easier than learning to price!

I do something like Bernie, Dia" plus Height" times Value of wood per board foot. Then I adjust from there for the difficulty and quality of the piece. This helps with the plain maple versus the maple burl question.

Good Luck

Frank

[George Guadiane]

After reading the "Per inch / per..." I'd like to add this:
The pieces I turn, whether single wood or segmented pieces are done with a certain "love" (care). When they are finished, most of them become like children (family members) to me. I want to make sure they are going to a good home, and/or if I am going to "sell them into slavery" that I get a good price for them (it makes them feel better about getting sold). The more I like a piece, the higher the price, no matter what the size, shape or wood. I am prepared to live with a lot of what I do, I take it out between shows and display it in my home so that I can pick it up and feel it in my hands between times.
The things I don't really care about are donated or given to strangers (or people I don't like).
Mine is (I am SURE) an odd way of looking at the pricing thing, but, like people, no two are the same and each should be valued on it's own merit.
I also donate some of the really "good" pieces, because they go to worthy causes and theoretically, good homes.

[Bill Lantry]

I think most people sell themselves short. I was at simon pearse in Vermont a few weeks ago, and saw an 18" bowl going for 500 bucks. Many other large bowls were a couple hundred a piece. Even their website has some you can order for over 15 dollars an inch:

http://www.simonpearce.com/navSubDep...Name=SubWBowls

they seem to sell well. Another way to think about it: look at pottery barn. They mass sell rustic wooden bowls for the stated 10$ an inch. It's like finding a piece of furniture at a retail furniture outlet. The same piece of furniture, custom made, would be what? 2, 3, 4 times the price? And well worth it!

Of course, it all depends on region and local market. But I have the impression there are people out there who undersell themselves, which in turn hurts the pro turners...

Thanks,

Bill

[George Guadiane]

I think most people sell themselves short. I was at simon pearse in Vermont a few weeks ago, and saw an 18" bowl going for 500 bucks. Many other large bowls were a couple hundred a piece. Even their website has some you can order for over 15 dollars an inch:

http://www.simonpearce.com/navSubDep...Name=SubWBowls

they seem to sell well. Another way to think about it: look at pottery barn. They mass sell rustic wooden bowls for the stated 10$ an inch. It's like finding a piece of furniture at a retail furniture outlet. The same piece of furniture, custom made, would be what? 2, 3, 4 times the price? And well worth it!

Of course, it all depends on region and local market. But I have the impression there are people out there who undersell themselves, which in turn hurts the pro turners...

Thanks,

Bill

I don't know Bill, I think I would INCLUDE the professional turners. I see a lot of nice work that if I had done it, I would have put a much higher price on it. As I said at first, it is easier to lower your prices than it is to raise them..
(I don't mean this as an insult, only an observation) Whether desperate to sell something, so that they can say that they did, or in desperate financial need, or unaware of the marketplace, or of the value of local hand made up scale products, MANY turners (and other crafters/artists) undervalue their stuff.
The Wal-Mart (pottery barn) mentality is grooming the world to hold themselves and what they do ("welcome to Wal-Mart"), as pretty much without value,and certainly without a growing marketplace. They seem to be grooming us to only think in terms of price, and not even consider value or economic impact. It makes THEM the most money and leaves people like us with fewer and fewer outlets for ANY custom/hand made/crafted things.
(I rant because I love)