Where are your tools made?

[Pat Zabrocki]

That's a good point about the shareholder being multi-national etc...

Obviously, this isn't an economics forum and I didn't consider that, thoug I would guess that more shareholders of GM are American and more shareholders of Toyota are not, your point is still very valid. As my post implies (hopefully), my stance is more warm and fuzzy about buying American and certainly not condescending as I was quick to point out my own contradictions. I was really trying to point out that I have apparently applied that sort of opinion selectively and not very constistently either. I was wondering how many others would admit to the same.
cheers
Pat

[Dwain Lambrigger]

This is a good question, and the car analogy works well.

I own two Fords, a pickup, and my wife's expedition. I bought them because they have received good reviews over time, they aren't too expensive, and they fit our families needs. Now, further down that list, I also bought them because my grandpa and my dad bought Ford, and I want to buy an American made car. I feel good about it. That being said, if Ford quality got worse, I would go buy a Toyota Tundra; and I'd do it tomorrow. It would bother me that Ford, GM or Dodge were making a sub par vehicle. But I wouldn't give a poor American car another look. I guess my patriotism won't hold me hostage.

Are you going to buy an American tool even if it is worse than a foreign counter part. I won't. All things being equal in quality, I would always by American, I think most of us would.

I guess I am saying that it is important for us to buy the best tools (that we can afford.) Period. If that tool is American made, all the better. If it isn't, then I am going to spur better products from American manufacturers the best way I can, with my checkbook.

I think it is now too expensive to build a quality power tool (like a cabinet saw) in American, and price it competitively. I am not sure where Powermatic is made, but if Grizzly can give me a quality tool, with EXCELLENT customer service, then I would buy. It is a sad state of world economics. Maybe it's time to rebuild those old Unisaws, and move forward from there! Still, I believe in supporting quality American made products, not simply products made in America.

[Ed Labadie]

Since my job depends on American manufacturing I try to buy USA made tools when possible.
I like to take time and think about a purchase before buying, comparing features of different manufacturers, customer service and country of origin before laying down my $$$$$. If the better tool (IMHO) is foreign made, so be it.

There are also many foreign made tools/machines that no US company makes, so USA made is sometimes not an option.

Ed

[Bruce Benjamin]

Anytime I shop for tools, I am pretty sure I pick up just about every one on the shelf looking to see where it is made. I more or less refuse to buy anything chinese, and I always try to find USA made. Boy is that a challenge!

I was wondering if any of you do the same thing, and if there are any brands you have found that are mostly US manufactured.

Nearly all of my larger tools are made in either Taiwan or China. It's what I can afford at the time and what fits my needs. My favorite tools that I use the most are designed and built in the U.S.A. and those are my EZ Smart tools. So, the inventor has a serious Greek accent, I can live with that. All of the profits for the manufacture and sale stay right here in the U.S.A. Unfortunately, the Hilti 267E circular saw that I use on the EZ is made in Liechtenstein. Are any circular saws still made in the U.S.A.? If they are they aren't up to the quality of the Hilti, that's for sure.

I would prefer to buy all my tools, "Made in America" but that's just not possible for me. I have a very limited budget that I don't see changing anytime soon. There aren't any major tools other than the EZ Smart that I have that could've been purchased from a U.S. manufacturer in anywhere near the same price range. My choices were/are to either buy foreign or don't buy at all. I guess another choice is to try and save money for a few years to afford whatever tool is still made in the U.S.A. The used tool market in my area of far Northern California is small to virtually nonexistent so that's out of the question too. Besides, buying used American made tools really doesn't do much for that manufacturer's bottom line. Oh, and for what it's worth, it's either made in the U.S.A. or it's not. Canada, Mexico, Chaiwan, Japan, Germany, they're all about the same in my book when it comes to tool purchases. Either they help preserve American jobs or they don't. Where the profits go is another very complicated issue...

Is it better to buy something that's made in the U.S.A. by a foreign owned company or is it better to buy something that's made in a foreign country, like Canada or Mexico but from an American owned company? What helps the U.S. economy more? A lot of Honda cars are made in the U.S.A. But obviously it's a Japanese company. All of the Big Three American car companies build at least some of their cars outside of the U.S.A. I have no way of knowing about the percentage of $$ that are accounted for by foreign and domestic investments. But are more $$ poured into the U.S. economy by the wages earned by U.S. workers at the Honda plants or is more money kept in the U.S. by the profits of the foreign built Ford's, Chevys, and Chryslers. I guess we can't really count Dodge/Chrysler as American owned anymore. I don't know the answer but if I had to guess I'd say that the U.S. is better served by Honda than Chrysler. I hope I'm wrong though. I know there's an issue about what U.S. auto factories are UAW and which ones are non-union. I'm not much of a modern labor union guy myself but that's just my opinion.

I do find it funny when some people complain about and bad mouth the fact that many/most of the Harbor Freight items are made in Taiwan or China. I'll bet when you look in their shops you'll find that many of their tools were made in the same countries and some of them probably in the same factories but just with a different label on them and different paint. If you have only one or two Chaiwanese tools is that ok? I see it kinda like a guy who only robbed one bank not being as bad as the guy who robbed two banks. Those people seem to be very fond of splitting hairs when it comes to ethics and doing what's right for America. Many claim to have some sort of inside knowledge when it comes to knowing about what was manufactured where, using who's design. Yeah, uh huh...

Bruce

[Rod Sheridan]

I have a few Milwaukee tools that are made in the USA, as well as an Oneida cyclone. I also have Snap On and Mac hand tools, although I don't know if they are made in the US or Canada.

The trend today, is free trade, and globalization.

The manufacturing of tools or machinery outside the USA, does not result in lower or higher quality tools, the engineering and process control are what governs quality.

We've all purchased some North American garbage, and some premium quality imported tools.

That said, being Canadian, I have a large amount of green machinery in the basement (General) which is manufactured in Drummondville Quebec.

General, like Delta, and everyone else, had to begin making machinery in Taiwan to stay in business, because we are always on the quest for a lower cost item.

General formed General International to compete with the Taiwanese Delta equipment, while maintaining the made in Canada General line.

I like to purchase items that are made in my country, and don't hesitate to pay a premium for the equipment. I also am a firm believer in paying more upfront, rather than replacing items as they wear out.

I also purchase imported tools and equipment, if they are superior to home made equipment, or there isn't a home made substitute.

I'm sure many of us have ECE planes, Japanese or German saws or chisels etc.

My only concern about our constant quest for a can of tuna that's 10 cents cheaper, is that it exports the jobs and value generated.

Eventually we will have such low average wages, that we won't be able to generate enough tax revenue to fund societal needs, or have enough income to afford post secondary eucations for our children.

Regards, Rod.

[Chuck Lenz]

This is a good question, and the car analogy works well.

I own two Fords, a pickup, and my wife's expedition. I bought them because they have received good reviews over time, they aren't too expensive, and they fit our families needs. Now, further down that list, I also bought them because my grandpa and my dad bought Ford, and I want to buy an American made car. I feel good about it. That being said, if Ford quality got worse, I would go buy a Toyota Tundra; and I'd do it tomorrow. It would bother me that Ford, GM or Dodge were making a sub par vehicle. But I wouldn't give a poor American car another look. I guess my patriotism won't hold me hostage.

Are you going to buy an American tool even if it is worse than a foreign counter part. I won't. All things being equal in quality, I would always by American, I think most of us would.

I guess I am saying that it is important for us to buy the best tools (that we can afford.) Period. If that tool is American made, all the better. If it isn't, then I am going to spur better products from American manufacturers the best way I can, with my checkbook.

I think it is now too expensive to build a quality power tool (like a cabinet saw) in American, and price it competitively. I am not sure where Powermatic is made, but if Grizzly can give me a quality tool, with EXCELLENT customer service, then I would buy. It is a sad state of world economics. Maybe it's time to rebuild those old Unisaws, and move forward from there! Still, I believe in supporting quality American made products, not simply products made in America.

Interesting statement Dwain, but I don't know of any American made tools that are sub par these days, if there are, it's probably because they have some imported parts in them.

[Lean Angle]

I was really trying to point out that I have apparently applied that sort of opinion selectively and not very constistently either. I was wondering how many others would admit to the same.
cheers
Pat

I know for instance that I don't usually bother to look when I buy clothes. I guess I'm not really as concerned about the quality, that and its almost impossible to find clothes made in this country.

[Scott Loven]

Most Kreg Tools are made in the USA, Forest saw blades also, both highly rated products.
Scott

[Jim Heagney]

I know this isn't an international economics forum, but how do you define that?

Profits in a public company go to shareholders. I'm sure that GM has many shares controlled by interests in China, Japan and elsewhere, and the inverse is true of Toyota. GM has facilities and plants all around the world, and so does Toyota. GM has employees in almost every nation on earth, so does Toyota. When you buy a GM car those employees and facilities in other countries benefit probably just as much as any particular facility or employee in the US.

I know this is an emotional issue for many folks, but it's nowhere near as clear cut as many seem to believe.

Sorry, I couldn't let this subject go by without sticking in my 2 cents!

Don has some very good points but.....

What many folks don't think of is the taxes that a corporation pays on those profits. The taxes on the profits go to the state and or country where the corporate headquarters are located. The taxes are what help pay for government, infrastucture and services. When the corporate tax revenue leaves, the government relies on the individual taxpayer.

That's why it's good to buy from local companies (city, state & country) if possible.

Foreign companies that "make" their products here are not necessarily a good thing. Yes, they employ local folks but the company doesn't pay their fair share of taxes locally and thus the burden falls to the local people.

I realize there's a lot more to this than any one simple answer. I just wanted to highlight another point of view. I'll get off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening.

Jim

[Chuck Lenz]

U.S.A., England, Germany, Japan, China, Taiwan, Mexico. All good products, well-designed, and well made.

A friend recently criticized me for buying a Toyota Sienna minivan. He went on and on about how he wouldn't buy anything made by a former enemy of the U.S.

I pointed out to him that my Sienna was assembled in Indiana. He didn't know that his Audi (Auto Industrie Deutsche Industrie) was manufactured in Germany. Tee hee.

I don't think you can put China, Taiwan or Mexico in the same class as the USA, Germany or even Canada as someone else has said.

[Bruce Benjamin]

This is a good question, and the car analogy works well.

I own two Fords, a pickup, and my wife's expedition. I bought them because they have received good reviews over time, they aren't too expensive, and they fit our families needs. Now, further down that list, I also bought them because my grandpa and my dad bought Ford, and I want to buy an American made car. I feel good about it. That being said, if Ford quality got worse, I would go buy a Toyota Tundra; and I'd do it tomorrow. It would bother me that Ford, GM or Dodge were making a sub par vehicle. But I wouldn't give a poor American car another look. I guess my patriotism won't hold me hostage.

Are you going to buy an American tool even if it is worse than a foreign counter part. I won't. All things being equal in quality, I would always by American, I think most of us would.

I guess I am saying that it is important for us to buy the best tools (that we can afford.) Period. If that tool is American made, all the better. If it isn't, then I am going to spur better products from American manufacturers the best way I can, with my checkbook.

I think it is now too expensive to build a quality power tool (like a cabinet saw) in American, and price it competitively. I am not sure where Powermatic is made, but if Grizzly can give me a quality tool, with EXCELLENT customer service, then I would buy. It is a sad state of world economics. Maybe it's time to rebuild those old Unisaws, and move forward from there! Still, I believe in supporting quality American made products, not simply products made in America.

I agree with this last statement, Dwain. But where were your, "American Cars" made? What's your definition of an American Car? A lot of Honda's and Toyotas are made in America and a lot of Fords, Chevy's and Chryslers are made in Canada or Mexico and who knows where all of the parts come from?

I also think the idea that American owned companies currently build cars of equal or better quality to Japanese companies is debatable. They have really improved their quality and in some cases surpassed that of the Japanese. But if you talk to my friend who owns a successful auto repair business he'll tell you that he still gets a lot more American cars with problems than Japanese. For what it's worth, I currently drive a Suburban and a Jeep Cherokee. My last few cars in the past 10 years or so have been 3 Jeeps, 1 Ford, and 1 GMC and throw in an American made Mazda 626 and and American made Toyota pickup. The Cherokee has had it's small problems but just won't die with way over 200K on the odometer. That Toyota was practically bullet proof. The rest? Well, let's just say that I've kept my mechanic friend busy and my own knuckles skinned and greasy.

I'm not in the market for a new car so I don't have to make this decision. But if I was looking to buy a reliable, fuel efficient American made car right now I think I'd have a difficult time making a decision based only on the brand name of the car. It still makes me angry that Lee Iaccoca conned the U.S. government out of a bundle of money way back in the 70's only to turn around and spend billions of $$ to build factories in Canada and become the largest American importer of Mitsubishi made cars and parts.

Bruce

[Bruce Benjamin]

I don't think you can put China, Taiwan or Mexico in the same class as the USA, Germany or even Canada as someone else has said.

I can and do. To each their own. I just believe that America hasn't received much more support from Canada or Germany than from those other countries. You have your own standards to judge by and from prior conversations that you and I have had I can be certain that your ideas frequently don't match mine. You're entitled to your opinions of course. I'll keep mine thanks.

Bruce

[Jason Beam]

I don't think you can put China, Taiwan or Mexico in the same class as the USA, Germany or even Canada as someone else has said.

I disagree. Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but it sounds to me like you're implying that China, Taiwan and Mexico are incapable of producing ANY quality and that no good tools come from those countries. One step further, it sounds like you are saying that no tools made by those three countries compares in quality to a US made one of the same type?

That seems awefully general. I'd bet that every countery has both good and bad manufacturers. I'd also bet some of those good manufacturers could give us a run for our money.

Maybe I'm just reading you wrong.

[Don C Peterson]

Sorry, I couldn't let this subject go by without sticking in my 2 cents!

Don has some very good points but.....

What many folks don't think of is the taxes that a corporation pays on those profits. The taxes on the profits go to the state and or country where the corporate headquarters are located. The taxes are what help pay for government, infrastucture and services. When the corporate tax revenue leaves, the government relies on the individual taxpayer.

That's why it's good to buy from local companies (city, state & country) if possible.

Foreign companies that "make" their products here are not necessarily a good thing. Yes, they employ local folks but the company doesn't pay their fair share of taxes locally and thus the burden falls to the local people.

I realize there's a lot more to this than any one simple answer. I just wanted to highlight another point of view. I'll get off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening.

Jim

The problem with your argument is that you have to accept that more tax revenue is a good thing. Or in other words that government in general needs more money. I'm probably getting too political here, but the more money governments have, the more harm they generally do. When was the last time you ever saw any government apply a surplus of tax revenues to fund better basic services that truly benefit the tax payers? It may have happened somewhere, but I can't recall a time when it happened...

So I don't mind at all that a bit of my purchase might go to make the government somewhere else larger and more intrusive, if the alternative is to enable my "representatives" to spend more of other people's money.

OK, back to woodworking subjects before I get banned...

[Steve Rybicki]

I personally cannot afford to subsidize a business simply because of where it's headquartered. I have enough difficulty supporting my family with my business (which no one subsidizes). My product is either the best value or people don't buy it. This is the way it should be.

I've been hearing "buy American or we're doomed" for at least 20 years yet when I look around, I don't see the poverty other countries have. Our poor people are the middle class of many countries. I can afford to live the way I do, because of the competition from other countries. Lower prices from competition means my dollars go farther.

I also do not blindly buy a product because it's cheaper. I evaluate the quality and if is on par with a higher priced product, the decision is an easy one for me. Many times I buy the higher prices item because I desire the quality and value of it's features. I think this is how most Americans shop and it isn't likely to change.

This is just an opinion. I don't expect others to agree with it and I don't think it will change the minds of those who don't. I just figured others might be interested in knowing the reasoning behind why some choose to go with the best value - regardless of where the parent company is located.