Dust gurus...any half measures possible?

[Richard Link]

I've been enjoying some of these dust collection threads lately and found them very informative. I wanted to ask a basic question for you dust collector experts about my own setup.

I have a quite small 2 car garage shop that I have stuffed with too many stationary tools. The term "10 lb sausage in a 5lb casing" comes to mind. From a dust collection standpoint, I have a "mobile" Delta 1.5 Hp single stage collector (50-760; with bag on top) and an overhead Jet air cleaner. I have no fixed ducting in place. The dust collector seems to work ok but I have a bit of trouble moving it around to reach machines on the other side of the shop. It tends to stay near the table saw and primarily service that machine.

I have several other limitations in terms of upgrading to a more powerful cyclone system. First, I don't really have enough 220V power in the shop (I think its a 40 Amp circuit and I have a 3 HP cabinet saw attached to that). Second, I don't know where I could shoehorn in a larger cyclone dust collection system. I also am a bit daunted by the job of building fixed ducting. I had a couple of ideas, but tend to think they may not work. What do you think?

(1) Buy a 12 or 15 foot length of 4" PVC pipe and run it on the floor over to the other side of the shop. Connect the end with SHORT lengths of flexible hose and blast gates to the stationary machines on that side (band saw, drum sander, planer). Question is, is this little collector going to be unable to pull enough through that duct to make that work, even if I absolutely limit its use to a single machine at a time?

(2) Is there any benefit to retrofitting this unit with a canister top (is that even possible) to improve airflow?

(3) Should I just buy another cheap dust collector unit and put it on that side of the shop (again, space is a problem but no ducting to install).

(4) Should I give up all these dust creating power tools and just use a sharpened screwdriver and mallet for woodworking?

(5) Are half measures pointless...in which case, should I just hold on for a while and save up some cash and retrofit the whole space with fixed ducting and a 2 hp cyclone (which I may need to carry on my back to find floor space).

Advice welcome.

Thanks.

Rick

[Josiah Bartlett]

As long as you use smooth pipe instead of hose, that length shouldn't be a problem, as long as you don't put in elbows. Elbows and corrugated hose are what kills air flow.

[Steven Wilson]

What is your dust collection goal? If you want clean, breathable air while you're using your stationary powertools and not wear a respirator then you need to engineer to that (i.e. filtering at the 1 micron level). If you want a fairly clean shop then use what you have (a lower power chip collector and air filter) and wear a respirator while you're using your power tools. So for $50 you can keep your lungs healthy by buing a decent 1/2 mask 3M respirator.

As for your quesitons

1) useless, you don't have enough umph in your collector to properly support duct work, if your goal is to collect fine dust. If your goal is to collect chips then go ahead.

2) If you change the bottom bag to something impervious and the top bag to a canister or someother filter media with sub 1 micron capability then the air you return to your shop should be clean enough to breath. You still don't have a DC unit with enough power to properly pull the fine dust along so that it can be filtered. A decent canister will help and may work very well with some tools but not well with others. You will still need to have a respirator handy.

3) Another cheap DC will ease movement issues but do nothing to improve air quality.

4) If you create chips/shavings and not dust then your nose will thank you. My nose is just fine when I use handplanes and scrapers.

5) 1/2 measures are just throwing good money after bad.

Remember, your lungs breath the same air as that Jet air cleaner so that Jet air cleaner is doing nothing for your lungs while your working. Those cleaners are great for clearing things up after you're done or to get your space ready for finishing but they don't help your lungs. Also, don't forget your shop vac, a decent HEPA filter and connecting a hose to your hand held power tools works wonders on keeping the air clean. Finally, a good respirator is cheap and effective - buy one.

[David DeCristoforo]

First of all, I would not dismiss the possibility of using a 3hp cyclone on the same 220 circut as the 3hp TS. 40 amps should be more than enough to handle that. The only issue I can see would be if the TS and the DC were powered on at exactly the same time. That might cause enough surge to pop the breaker. As to space, have you considered the possibility of locating the DC outside the shop? A simple plywood enclosure built against a shop wall would be sufficient and in milder weather areas, just a "awning" type roof would do.

[Richard Link]

I would be trying to absolutely minimize turns or long lengths of corrugated hose. At bare minimum, a six inch pipe connected to the dust collector by a short segment of hose and another short segment of hose to the machines at the other end. And some chewing gum...and duct tape...

[Richard Link]

Thanks for the information. You make a very valid point about the chips vs. dust issue. I find that the respirator is a bit painful to wear as the garage is not air conditioned and its bloody hot in Houston. I suppose one alternative would be to just buy a better respirator (maybe one of those Airshield things that would be off the face) and use the collector extension to just pull chips...

I assume that to engineer a "safe" air environment, I would need to go the full monty route including a cyclone, fixed ducting, etc.

R

[Chuck Lenz]

Remember, your lungs breath the same air as that Jet air cleaner so that Jet air cleaner is doing nothing for your lungs while your working. Those cleaners are great for clearing things up after you're done or to get your space ready for finishing but they don't help your lungs.

I think thats a bit misleading. Air cleaners do help. The real culprit is the dust collector if your useing bags. I do however understand about what your saying that you generaly can't get all the dust produced with most power tools directly were you are working and your breathing that air before it gets to the air cleaner. But without a air cleaner it would be alot dustier in the whole shop.

[Bill Wyko]

I've also used a swamp cooler in reverse as a dust removal system. Lots of cfm to remove air from the room.

[Chris Friesen]

I've got the same dust collector in my 2-car garshop. With a decent hood and short hoses it does a great job, but I know that the fine stuff is probably leaking through the bag somewhat. It's definately NOT powerful enough to run a duct network of any length at all.

In the summer I can open up the big overhead door and the back man-door to try to get some airflow and blow the extra-fine dust out of the shop. On a still day of course this doesn't help. A dust respirator is a good idea.

If one is serious about lung health, a cyclone with custom dust hoods and 6" ducts seems to be the best way to go. Until then, a respirator is your best bet for lung health, and shop-vacs and dust collectors help keep the visible dust down.

[glenn bradley]

The hot weather can work to your advantage. I have the garage door open frequently and the side door. I run a couple fans because its hot (aimed along the natural air flow path through the garage).

If the fines aren't picked up at the machine, you're breathing them. So, full monty for a real clean environment. Half measures are better than not.

I run a small Delta at the TS and swing a hose to other machines. I do not delude myself into thinking this is Bill Pentz approved but it is sooo much better than without.

If you plan to go full monty at some point I would minimize spending on anything that will become a throw away. If you'll never get there then a second collector to ease you movement problems sounds like a good step. IMHO.

[Rick Potter]

Living in hot country gives you an option you might consider. If you have no real close neighbors, use your collector to suck the dust outside, rather than in the bags.

I haven't tried it yet, but am considering putting an MDF lid on the top of the collector where the upper bag goes, with a 6" pipe leading outside. I am hoping most of the big chips would still go in the lower bag, but the small dust would blow right on outside.

Crazy? Maybe.

Rick Potter

[Steven Wilson]

I think thats a bit misleading. Air cleaners do help. The real culprit is the dust collector if your useing bags. I do however understand about what your saying that you generaly can't get all the dust produced with most power tools directly were you are working and your breathing that air before it gets to the air cleaner. But without a air cleaner it would be alot dustier in the whole shop.

It's not misleading at all Chuck. Are you trying to tell me that when you're working with a power tool that is producing dust that you aren't capturing, the dust magically bypasses your face and goes up to the ceiling hung filtration unit to be filtered before you breath it? Sorry Chuck but that's pure fantasy. Your lungs are breathing the same air that the air filtration unit is filtering - period. If you want to protect your lungs then wear a respirator.

As for working when it's warm, it's always a good idea to open up the doors and run a big fan, keeps the air circulating and the concentration of dust down.

[Phil Thien]

It's not misleading at all Chuck. Are you trying to tell me that when you're working with a power tool that is producing dust that you aren't capturing, the dust magically bypasses your face and goes up to the ceiling hung filtration unit to be filtered before you breath it? Sorry Chuck but that's pure fantasy. Your lungs are breathing the same air that the air filtration unit is filtering - period. If you want to protect your lungs then wear a respirator.

As for working when it's warm, it's always a good idea to open up the doors and run a big fan, keeps the air circulating and the concentration of dust down.

Air cleaners "scrub" the air in the shop several times an hour. There is just no argument that they vastly improve air quality. It seems like you're implying that their purpose is to keep dust from settling on surfaces. That is a secondary benefit, not a primary. Primary benefit is keeping dust out of your lungs.

[Tom Veatch]

...First, I don't really have enough 220V power in the shop (I think its a 40 Amp circuit and I have a 3 HP cabinet saw attached to that)....

i'll second David DeChristoforo's comment that a 220v/40amp curcuit should be plenty. Assuming 100% efficiency (and we all know that ain't gonna happen) that electrical service converts to almost 12 HP (volts * amps/746). Even assuming overall efficiency at 50% which is probably overly conservative, you still have enough to run the TS and about twice the DC you currently have. You might trip a breaker if you managed to get starting surges on both machines at the same time, but even that's not a certainty. Depends a lot on the time delay/overcurrent characteristics of the breaker.

I run a 3HP cabinet saw on a 20 amp circuit and have never tripped the breaker even with a heavy load on the saw.

[Richard Link]

Thanks for all the the input everyone, especially the points on the electrical service. Perhaps I'm less limited by power than I thought.

After some reflection, I've decided on an alternative which should be very protective. In the photo, I'm on my way to the surface planer to prepared some stock....

Thanks again.

Rick