Oneida Pro 1500 verses Grizzly GO441

[Paul Greathouse]

I've used the search function and can't come up with any head to head comparison of these two cyclones. There is alot of info on the Oneida dust collectors but not much on the Grizzly. They are both 3HP machines and seem to be equal in alot of areas except price.

I have been putting off buying a cyclone but it is time now. I have a Shop Fox Planer/Jointer on order and will be adding a 20" Planer and a 26" Drum Sander within the year so I will need quality dust control very soon.

What I need to know:
Is the Oneida Pro 1500 worth $600 more than the Grizzly GO441?
The following is a rough comparison I have put togeather from researching the two companies websites.

Oneida Pro 1500 - 5year Warranty - 3HP Class F Baldor motor
1593 CFM - 7" inlet to cyclone
Cyclone cost $1695
Steel Stand $244
Bag Gripper $117
35gal chip drum Standard
Remote control Not mentioned
Noise muffler Not mentioned
Total $2056

Grizzly GO441 - 1year Warranty - 3HP Class F motor made by the same factory that makes motors for their other machines
1654 CFM@ 2" Static Pressure (14.2 SP max) - 8" inlet to cyclone
Cyclone $1195
Steel Stand $170
Bag Holder $90
55gal chip drum Standard
Remote control Standard
Noise muffler Standard
Total $1455

I want to get the best for my money regardless of the country of origin. If I could buy exclusively American made tools I would but quite frankly most of the other large tool purchases I have planed are not American made due to availability and/or price. A good example is the Shop Fox Planer/Molder I have on order from Grizzly. We all know it is almost, if not completely identical to the Williams and Hussey but I saved roughly $1400 by buying the Shop Fox on sale.

So please, this is my one chance to buy American, on top of that Oneida is a Sawmill Creek Sponsor. convince me somehow that the Oneida is worth $600 more for what seems like a comparable machine.

My shop will eventually contain the following large machines:
20" Planer
26" Drum Sander
12" Jointer
Planer/Molder
Shaper
Bandsaw
Tablesaw

[Jim Becker]

Both are nice machines. One big edge to Oneida is that dust collection "is" their business. I felt that important back in 2000 when I bought my first cyclone from them and when I needed larger a few years ago, they were also my choice. After visiting their facility when I piocked up my current 2hp Commercial cyclone, it was obvious to me that their operation was top notch. I'm sure the Griz is great, too, as a machine.

[Paul Greathouse]

Both are nice machines. One big edge to Oneida is that dust collection "is" their business. I felt that important back in 2000 when I bought my first cyclone from them and when I needed larger a few years ago, they were also my choice. After visiting their facility when I piocked up my current 2hp Commercial cyclone, it was obvious to me that their operation was top notch. I'm sure the Griz is great, too, as a machine.

Thanks for the feedback Jim,

Without having seen either machine and not being too familiar with cyclones in general, I value the opinion of guys like you that have already been there and done that. I agree that a company that specializes normally has the edge.
I've just seen so many good reviews on the other Grizzly equipment lately, I was wondering if they had made the same positive strides with their dust collection. I'm more of a Chevy guy rather than the Caddilac type. If the Chevy gets the job done sufficiently I'm willing to settle for that and spend the saved money elsewhere.

[Gregory Stahl]

It is a G0441 for me--it is scheduled for delivery on Monday!

I have to run, but will tell you why later tonight--or you can look over on Woodnet for a discussion regarding a G0441 and 20-Amp breakers.

Greg

[Frederick Rowe]

Paul - Tough to compare without seeing both. I, having a Super Gorilla 2 HP, am biased towards Oneida. I've had it 2 years and am impressed with Oneida's service, quality, and the unit's performance. I also looked at the Grizzly line of cyclones. Look at the Oneida web site for a comparison with a Grizzly cyclone (unsure which model).

http://www.oneida-air.com/oneida_adv...son_images.php

I'm sure the Grizzly cyclone performs well, but I'd encourage you to go with the Oneida. Or call Oneida and ask why you should go with theirs over the less expensive Grizzly. They periodically have specials, it might make your decision easier.

Oneida also offers free shipping on duct work over $100 (at least when I purchased). Plan on spending at least 50% of your cyclones cost in duct work. If necessary, live with flex hose until you figure out what you want, but having a well thought out duct system is just as important as whether there is a Grizzly or Oneida at the end of it.

Good Luck!

[Craig Coney]

I would take the information on Oneida's web site comaprisons lightly, and not too literally. I would call them or send emails requesting clairification on their competitive comparison claims.

Make sure that you ask alot of questions so that when the machine arrives, it arrives to your expectations.

[Frederick Rowe]

Craig - Out of curiosity, why take the Oneida comparisons lightly? They seem objective in that the statistics are empirical measurements, resourced when quoting third parties, and frequently in the form of comparative photos. What's to take lightly or not literally?

The Grizzly web site offers a 16 page booklet on cyclone dust collectors, which while generally informative and well written, offers no comparison to other manufacturers except for three photographs which show an Oneida cyclone in the background during "testing".

The numbers Oneida offers in their comparison CFM at 2" SP are the same as posted in the Grizzly document.

Frankly, I can't find a single fact offered by Oneida that can be refuted by the information provided by Grizzly.

Clearly, there are a lot a satisfied G0441 owners out there, so it's probably a decent machine. The question is, which is the better choice for the OP? Are the differences worth the cost difference?

As far as honest advertising, I'd say Oneida passes the test. Here are links I used:

http://www.grizzly.com/images/pdf/Cy...Collectors.pdf
http://www.oneida-air.com/oneida_adv...comparison.php

[Gregory Stahl]

I compared the two cyclones at IWF this year, and I did not see the weld issues on the Grizzly that Oneida cites on their website. In fact, I was more impressed with the manufacture of the Grizzly than the Oneida.

Also, someone on Woodnet brought up issues with his 20A breaker tripping when powering up his G0441. He took a bunch of current measurements, and came to the conclusion the system is running at very high current ratings for a 3HP system.

If the Grizzly G0441 really does run at near 20A or better at full load, this is substantially more than the 14.5A of the Oneida. So, this indicates to me the Grizzly is doing much more work than the Oneida--the system is actually running closer to 5HP than 3HP.

A Grizzly engineer finally chimed in and assured us the motor on the system is well within its tolerances--so, even though Grizzly didn't go so far as saying the motor is of higher HP, I am concluding it is.

So, my belief is this system is really a 4+ HP system which makes it one heck of a deal compared to other cyclones.

I decided I better back-up my words and actually get this model and do some testing for myself with a good oscilloscope and calibrated test equipment. If I need more air movement in the future, I'll deal with it then. Who knows, maybe my findings won't be anywhere close to what the other person experienced!

If there is anyone with an Oneida 3HP Gorilla or Pro within a couple hours drive of Madison, WI, and you would allow me to take some current measurements on your system, please PM me.

Best,
Greg Stahl

[Don Abele]

Paul, this may be a little off your original question, but why did you choose the Pro model?

The Pro costs $1010 more than the Super Gorilla and the only differences I see is the Pro gives you 39 more CFM, comes with the filter efficiency kit ($113.85), and has a 7" inlet vice the 8" on the Gorilla. I can't see why the Pro is so much more expensive.

This will be an upgrade I'll be making when I move the family to VA in the spring/summer. I was pretty much set on the Gorilla until I read a review about the G0441 about two weeks ago. So I'll watch this thread with great interest and look forward to hearing your decision/results.

Be well,

Doc

EDIT: OK, this post doesn't make much sense now that I went back and re-read the prices. Guess I was having a moment!!! The cost difference is only $110, which makes sense given the added efficiency kit. But as Paul points out below, it's odd that they offer two nearly identical units.

[Craig Coney]

Frederick-
On the oneida link you referenced, it states that the cyclone cone construction is all seam welded.

Here is the link for the 2HP SDG, which calls out the same.

http://www.oneida-air.com/oneida_adv...comparison.php

Quote from web page on cyclone cone construction row:

"Oneida - ALL SEAM WELDED 16 GA - Competitor stitch welded and lock seamed. Much cheaper construction style - CREATES AIR LEAKS."

Only the top flange is seam welded. The cone seam is spot welded and not sealed, other than by paint. If the spot weld shows light thru it, won't this also create air leaks?

The bottom ring connector on the cone for the dust collection hose is lock seamed, not welded.

If they state "All Seam Welded" - Doesn't this include all seams? Not just one or two? In my book, "All" means every, all inclusive, 100%, not less than 100%.

On the Barrel, quote from Oneida Web Page :
"Oneida - ALL SEAM WELDED 16 Gauge - Competitor is stitch welded in many places. Much cheaper construction style - CREATES AIR LEAKS "

There are 2 seams spot welded here as well. not "ALL SEAM WELDED " as claimed in the comparisons.

This is what they are advertising, which in my case was not 100% true. If they have changed production methods, then they need to update their comparisons to what is shipping out the door.

[Paul Greathouse]

Paul, this may be a little off your original question, but why did you choose the Pro model?

The Pro costs $1010 more than the Super Gorilla and the only differences I see is the Pro gives you 39 more CFM, comes with the filter efficiency kit ($113.85), and has a 7" inlet vice the 8" on the Gorilla. I can't see why the Pro is so much more expensive.

This will be an upgrade I'll be making when I move the family to VA in the spring/summer. I was pretty much set on the Gorilla until I read a review about the G0441 about two weeks ago. So I'll watch this thread with great interest and look forward to hearing your decision/results.

Be well,

Doc

Doc

I went back and checked the prices of the 3HP Pro1500 verses the 3HP Super Gorilla. You did mean $110 and not $1010 didn't you? Oneida stated some differences between the two I don't recall now what they were but for $110 difference I figured I would use what they consider their best to compare to the competition. Frankly I don't understand why Oneida would offer two so comparably matched systems for roughly the same price. Kind of similar to the two comparably priced planer models that Grizzly sells.

Where did you read the review on the GO441 I would like to see it? I haven't been able to turn up much info on them here at Sawmill Creek. I respect reviews from both the Oneida and Grizzly owners. I've heard alot of great things about the Oneida but the Grizzly doesn't get talked about much here, at least not that I have seen.

I would like to get more information before making my decision. I'll probably be purchasing one or the other in November.

[Paul Greathouse]

I compared the two cyclones at IWF this year, and I did not see the weld issues on the Grizzly that Oneida cites on their website. In fact, I was more impressed with the manufacture of the Grizzly than the Oneida.

Also, someone on Woodnet brought up issues with his 20A breaker tripping when powering up his G0441. He took a bunch of current measurements, and came to the conclusion the system is running at very high current ratings for a 3HP system.

If the Grizzly G0441 really does run at near 20A or better at full load, this is substantially more than the 14.5A of the Oneida. So, this indicates to me the Grizzly is doing much more work than the Oneida--the system is actually running closer to 5HP than 3HP.

A Grizzly engineer finally chimed in and assured us the motor on the system is well within its tolerances--so, even though Grizzly didn't go so far as saying the motor is of higher HP, I am concluding it is.

So, my belief is this system is really a 4+ HP system which makes it one heck of a deal compared to other cyclones.

I decided I better back-up my words and actually get this model and do some testing for myself with a good oscilloscope and calibrated test equipment. If I need more air movement in the future, I'll deal with it then. Who knows, maybe my findings won't be anywhere close to what the other person experienced!

If there is anyone with an Oneida 3HP Gorilla or Pro within a couple hours drive of Madison, WI, and you would allow me to take some current measurements on your system, please PM me.

Best,
Greg Stahl

Thanks for the feedback Greg

Please post the performance results of your system once you get it up and running. I'm having trouble locating the thread that you referred to at Woodnet, whats the best way to search it? Are there other threads at Woodnet that deal with the G0441?

[Don Abele]

LOL Paul...Ooooppppsss

Now it makes sense. I really mis-read the prices didn't I? I've edited my post above.

But the point you make is interesting - why have two nearly identical machines? I mean, what's the point?

Anyway, thanks for correcting my "moment" mistake.

As for the review, I can't remember where I read it, but it was a glowing report. Though if you really think about, there really aren't any cyclones on the market that are not getting good reviews by the end user. For the hobbyist, I think we would all be happy and get good results from any of the cyclones on the market. Trying to figure out which one is best is a difficult task at best.

Be well,

Doc

[Bartee Lamar]

Well, I have the G0441. I think is great. I have tested it with 6" pipe attached and it worked great.

Here is how I got it delivered.

Here is the link to my install of my cyclone.

The fit and finish are excellent. remote works very well from anywhere in the shop and almost at any angle.

I did build an enclosure room ( link ) around it, but have found the noise goes way down as you hook up the piping.

I think a single woodworker in a shop, using one machine at time can get by with a 2hp unit. Of course being a guy, bigger is better, so I got the 3hp unit. A 2 hp would be quieter and I think would work.

I am piping with 6" pvc.

Here is my basic observations. From the Many threads I have read, not ONE person has been disatisfied with their cyclone. Grizzly, Penn State, Gorilla, or ClearVue. If you get down to the the very fine points that have been documented, I am sure you would find a difference. But for me, I have a 1 micron air cleaner and with the cyclone I am very satisfied with the incredible dust reduction in my shop.

I will have complete 6" PVC piping album soon. I am just finishing, but have to wait on my sawstop to complete the final leg.

[Paul Greathouse]

Well, I have the G0441. I think is great. I have tested it with 6" pipe attached and it worked great.

Here is how I got it delivered.

Here is the link to my install of my cyclone.

The fit and finish are excellent. remote works very well from anywhere in the shop and almost at any angle.

I did build an enclosure room ( link ) around it, but have found the noise goes way down as you hook up the piping.

I think a single woodworker in a shop, using one machine at time can get by with a 2hp unit. Of course being a guy, bigger is better, so I got the 3hp unit. A 2 hp would be quieter and I think would work.

I am piping with 6" pvc.

Here is my basic observations. From the Many threads I have read, not ONE person has been disatisfied with their cyclone. Grizzly, Penn State, Gorilla, or ClearVue. If you get down to the the very fine points that have been documented, I am sure you would find a difference. But for me, I have a 1 micron air cleaner and with the cyclone I am very satisfied with the incredible dust reduction in my shop.

I will have complete 6" PVC piping album soon. I am just finishing, but have to wait on my sawstop to complete the final leg.

Bartee, Thanks for the response and most of all for the pictorials. Someone like you is who I needed to hear from. Up till now I haven't seen a whole lot of information from someone who actually has one.

Hopefully Greg's will be delivered today and I will hear even more good news.