Sawstop: 3 or 5HP? Sawstop Fence or Incra/Jointech, etc.?

[Jim Kaczmark]

Am finalizing my purchase decision on the Sawstop cabinet saw. Would like your input on a few things:

Will be using saw primarily for cabinetry (kitchens, baths, etc.), and for misc. built-ins for our home. Will not be used for a business.

What are your thoughts on the 3 vs. 5 HP motor? (Single phase version)

Would you skip the Sawstop T-Glide fence system and replace it with a "precision" fence such as the Incra or Jointech?

Note, if I get a Icra or Jointech, I'd probably be installing a router in the extension table to take advantage of it. (Dovetails, etc.)

Any pro's or con's will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
Jim

[David DeCristoforo]

More power...gooood! The Saw Stop fence is at least as good as the Bessy and fine for general cabinet work. The Incra (IMMHO) is a bit "fussy".

[Jim Becker]

Unless the price difference is substantial, there isn't any downside on the higher horsepower in the long run outside of a 30 amp circuit requirement. I'm not personally fond of the Incra/Jointech type fences due to the space they take up, but others swear by them. I prefer a UniFence type fence...

[Homer Faucett]

I went through the same decision process you are making about 6 months ago, and I do a lot of the same type of work you will be doing. I opted for the 3hp unit, as the dealer had it in stock and I could take it home. He had sold the 5hp unit the day before, otherwise I would have probably spent the extra $200 for the upgrade. The 3hp has been more than enough for me, however.

In my opinion, the fence question is completely personal. I ended up buying an Incra fence (same basic construction as the Jointec, and I was able to get it from Amazon for about $275). Don't listen to all the hype--you can get the standard Incra to fit your Sawstop without modification . . . just a slight change in installation is all that is needed (or at least that is what I found to be true in my case). The ONLY drawback to the Incra, in my experience, is the extra space that it can take up when adjusted to its right-most point from the blade. I would disagree with those who say it's fussy. It is much more sturdy and rugged than I expected, and I run full sheets of ply through my saw quite often. The repeatability and ability to dial it in is really nice.

However, as I said, it's totally a personal preference. For example, while Jim really likes the Unifence style fence, I wouldn't have one on my saw again (I had one on my Sawstop for a few weeks while I was waiting for delivery of my Incra). If you like a Bies-style fence, the Sawstop fence is a really nice Bies-style fence.

I will give you one word of caution, though: If you're cutting a lot of sheet goods, if you put the riving knife as close to the blade as recommended in the instruction manual, you may end up with a false trigger of the brake. I don't know if this is actually what happened with mine, but I tripped two cartidges in a few days on mine. When I finally reached their tech support (no one returned my message from two days earlier before I tripped the second one), adjusting the riving knife was their recommendation. I had not tripped a cartridge in the first 6 months owning the saw, and I tripped two within three days of one another. Since that time, I haven't had a problem. I really don't know what was going on with the saw.

[paul kuflik]

I purchased a 3hp Sawstop with an Incra fence about 6 weeks ago. So far I am very happy with both, and the combo. Prior to this I had a 50's era Unisaw with a Biesemeyer fence. The biese is certainly quicker, but probably slightly less accurate, if 1/32" reproduciblity is significant. I'm not certain as yet myself. I also added a router table which influenced my decision to go with the Incra. Hope this helps.

[Warren Clemans]

Homer, just out of curiosity, did you have to eat the cost of the two cartridges and blades? Sounds like it was a design flaw with the saw or the manual, not something that you did wrong. I'm not sure what the right answer is, just curious.

[Gary Tenney]

I bought the 5HP with the SS fence and am delighted with it. I have not handled any sheet good though. Mostly ripping laminates for rocking chair rockers and back braces and the likes.

Paul,
Not to hijack the thread, but what router table did you put in? Did you make one?

[Bill Wyko]

The only down side of the Incra is that the tail end of it will extend off the end of the saw when making wider cuts. If you have the space off the right side of your saw you'll be fine. You can get unmatched accuracy with pretty much anything Incra makes. My BIL uses an Incra fence, you might PM him. His name is Eric Gustafson. He's a member here.

[Don Bullock]

Jim, I too bought a SawStop with an Incra fence. It was an upgrade from a 1979 Craftsman with a terrible fence system. Like you, I'm just a hobbiest and since I'm not yet retired, I don't get a lot of "shop time." I can't believe the difference in the SawStop and fence over the Craftsman.

Because it was only $200 more for the 5 hp and I had a 30 amp circuit installed in my shop (my electrician was very nice to me and upgraded it from his 20 amp quote for "free"), I went for more power. No, I haven't needed all that power yet, but compared to the price of the saw it was a "cheap" upgrade. The LOML told me to get the one that I wouldn't have to upgrade, so I did.

I think that the Incra fence is fantastic, but I've only used a Biesemeyer fence a few times so I can't compare them for you. The Incra is very accurate and the accuracy is easy to repeat. I've even had to reset the fence because I was cutting sheet goods wider than the 32". I was amazed at how easily I was able to put everything back with perfect accuracy. Eventually I plan to install a router table to the right of the saw and possibly one to the left too. I'll just have to see what kind of set up I need as I get more into my projects. For now I'm saving up the money for the right side table and lift. Besides, I haven't decided what table top and lift combination I want to put in. I am looking forward to installing the router table because of all the things that I can do with the Incra fence. When I bought the table saw fence I bought all the router table fence attachments as well. It was a little cheaper to buy it all at once that buy them separately. My only regret in not buying the longer 92" Incra rails due to space limitations. Once I'm able to move into a "dedicated" shop space instead of my present garage, I'll but a set of longer rails and legs at the end. As has already been stated, the only "down side" to the Incra is the section that sticks out to the right. For me, it's a small price to pay for having such an accurate fence after putting up with that Craftsman for so many years. But, if you really like a Biesemeyer fence then go with the SawStop fence (unless you were able to find one of the Biesemeyer fence deals at Lowe's). The SawStop fence is very well made.

[Mike Heidrick]

I have the 5hp Sawstop and the T-Glide fence. I upgraded from a 36-752 Delta original Hybrid with a Unifence. I also own a router table with the LS Incra. I might try the Incra fence on the TS as I love it on the router table. The T-glide is super smooth though and works perfect for me. I have broken down sheet goods with no problem but then again I had no problems doing the same on the 2hp Delta. I went 5hp because it was $200 more - I could pay the $200 now for the upgrade but $200 more latter on would not buy the upgrade so I did it right from the beginning. I have the 30amp circuit in place an it works awesome.

Anyone ever upgrade the sawstop to a 6" DC connection?

Also - I recommend the HTC HST-3274EX base. I added a shelf to it and installed a black ball bearing tool cabinet underneath and it is a sweet machine.

[Bob Feeser]

Is a 3hp motor better than a 5hp motor?
Is an Incra fence easier to set, and give you more accurate cuts?
I always respected the guy with the hole in his racket, and an old faded pair of cut off jeans, and he blew everyone off of the tennis court. So I understand that sometimes less is more. But with that said, I don't think people truly appreciate the Incra fence. So let me ask a few questions.
When you cut a pile of pieces, all the same size, and then need to go back to that setting, do you spend an inordinate amount of time, and wasting scrap, trying to find that same exact setting, because the hair line on the fence rule just doesn't get it accurate enough? Then when you think it is just right, do you put the piece in the stack, and your finger still feels the edge, and the final cut piece becomes the sore thumb.
Remember that the Incra gives you exact repeatability. You don't even need your glasses on when resetting it. Just get it close, and it automatically drops in a perfect setting again. Not even a single sandpaper wipe of a difference, and in an instant. No wasted time.
When going through 2" thick hardwood, and wishing to make a single pass, to create a surface that does not need jointing is additional horsepower an advantaqe to not let the motor slow down, and start to cause burning? With the additional horsepower can you more finely tweak your feed rate without having to consider the motors power? It's just one less thing to have to juggle in the middle of a cut.
When cutting sheet goods, or any larger stock, does your fence shift a slight angle at the outer edge, or does it have 2 places, or 3 to attach itself, or does it just attach on the one edge closest to you?
If you put a true straight edge against the face of your fence, is it off by a few thousandths, or more in the middle, or is it made out of highly quad channeled alumimun with zero deflection or warpage?

Enough with the questions already.

The 72" rails are all you need by the way. You just set them at the left edge of your saw, before the extension, then you can cut up to 48 1/2", which is all you need for 8 foot ply. Here is a pic of that setup, shown with the 50 dollar Woodpeck adjustable extension legs for the Incra fence. I haven't checked the price on them recently though.


I don't need to use my fence to the left side of the blade. By the way here is a tip when creating an outfeed table, considering having to accomodate the Incra twin rails.


Look I understand that 5hp is overkill for cutting regular stock, but since the price of the 5 is only a couple of hundred at most, more than the 3, once you get north of 2500, a couple of hundred should not break the bank. Another consideration is the electrical. A 40 amp is what was required for my PM mustard machine. The wire costs a little more than a 30 amp, and the breaker costs a little more, but if you have the capacity in the regular panel, go for it.
What do I think of 3hp machines with Beis fences? Let me explain it this way, I have my old Sears 1hp contractors saw, hooked up the the AccuFence that came with my PM, and I love it. It wasn't until I was doing a door job for a customer, and the 2" oak was filling my shop with smoke, and burning the wood, then I discovered the 50 year old saw had a belly in the middle, because the motor was attached to the top, instead of the cabinet, that forced me into the other room, and ordered the saw. With the 1hp saw, I was butchering the cuts, burning the wood, creating ragged saw marks, and then had to joint the edges to clean them up, which is not the ultimate for making final passes to get perfectly parallel widths.
Everyone has to fit their own needs, budget, space, and cutting requirements, but if you have the room, go for it.
Mate your Saw stop up to a Forrest WWII 40 tooth blade, and enjoy glass smooth, ready to be installed cuts, with a 3 hp, or whatever you are running.
By the way you mentioned that you are combining routing into the saw extension. The following picture of the Sears saw, before I acquired the PM, will create some food for thought. The router fence closest to you has a block of wood that fits in a trough, in the back of the fence, so the Incra can be used in reverse for setting that fence as well. The block is off in the pic so the fence center piece can slide through it. You just set one of the 4 tape rules in reverse, calibrating it to the router fence instead.


Jim,
This is about my 4th edit, and I know it is getting lengthy, but do you have a saw now? I kept the Sears saw, and turned it into the roll around portable routing station. It was my Dad's old saw, and I built a base for it too.

Like I said, I love the new one, and I love the old one. Circa 1950 hot rodded with the Accu Fence.

[Ted Baca]

As an owner now for 10 months I can say that I have never run in to a situation where I wished for more power. That 3 HP motor sawstop provides is a torque monster. I rip 3/4 plywood pretty regular and as mentioned plenty of power. Coming off a 15 year stint with 1 1/2 hp Craftsman I am on the honeymoon with this saw. I did not buy the fence I have an Excalibur that I kept and installed and actually bought another fence head assembly since they are no longer made. Excalibur was bought by General and I guess General doen't realize what a great fence it is.
I would save the 200 and put it towards the Incra were in your shoes.

[Homer Faucett]

That all remains to be seen. I've been quite busy lately, and haven't had time to break my blades loose, send in the brakes, and highlight the relevant portions of the owner's manual to the representatives. I'm hoping that they will at least replace the two breaks for free. Some nice gesture in at least fixing and/or inspecting the two blades would be much appreciated as well.

Homer, just out of curiosity, did you have to eat the cost of the two cartridges and blades? Sounds like it was a design flaw with the saw or the manual, not something that you did wrong. I'm not sure what the right answer is, just curious.

[Eric Gustafson]

That 3 HP motor sawstop provides is a torque monster. I rip 3/4 plywood pretty regular and as mentioned plenty of power.

It is good to hear that 3hp is well enough. I rip a lot of 3/4 ply on my 1 1/2hp Craftsman and find that is well sufficient power for that task.

However, how does 3hp perform when cutting 8/4 or thicker hardwoods? I ask because I am putting a subpanel in the garage and am trying to anticipate how big it must be.

[paul kuflik]

To be perfectly accurate, I have not as yet installed the router table. I purchased one from Woodpeckers with a router lift. I am planning to use a Porter Cable 7518 with it. The "sticking out" of the fence arm to the right of the table is somewhat annoying, but not enough to be a deal breaker.