Problem with General Finishes's Stain

[Aaron Cain]

Hey Guys,

this is my first experience using a General Finish product and I have a slight problem with some of their Oil Based stain. After I am applying two coats of Antique Cherry to Red Oak that has been sanded to 120 Grit. I apply with a foam brush and vigorously wipe the surface after the stain has penetrated. I allow the stain plenty of time to dry in a climate controlled area. The stain looks great at this point.

When I apply my top coat of Sam Maloofs oil/poly blend with a rag as recomended. Much of the stain is striped off into the rag that I am wiping with. This has never happened to me with Varathane stains with seem to penetrate more than General Finish stains that appear to contain more pigment.

Question #1 - I still plan on using the sam maloofs oil/poly blend. What can I use as a seal coat that will lock in the stain and allow me to oil the oil into the wood?

Question #2 - Would that seal coat be compatible with the sam maloofs?

Question #3 - What about a sanding sealer? I have never used one before and do not know much about them.

Thanks,
Aaron

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

1.& 2. If you coat the stain with Shellac, it will seal the stain in and Shellac is compatible with everything.

3. A sanding sealer is used to close the open pores, so that you get even coloring of the stain and usually goes on before the stain.

This is my experience. Others may have different opinions.

Bruce

[Steve Schoene]

The oil/poly mix, Maloof or Watco, is meant to go over bare wood, not wood that has been sealed. It should be applied and wiped off the surface. That's why oil/varnish mixes such as Watco have versions with coloration in the mix.

The first coat of the stain has effectively sealed the wood and the second coat even more. Pigment doesn't penetrate, it is held in place by a relatively weak binder, all the more weak because of heavy pigment content. This is particularly true of a second coat of stain which has little to grab to.

If you are working on samples so far, I would rethink the staining process and shift to a dye to establish the basic color. Dyes don't seal the wood and oil/varnish can be used over them easily.

If you the stain on the project, then I would shift top coats to a film finish. (It doesn't have to be a heavy film finish.) I would seal the stain with a coat of dewaxed shellac, best applied by spraying. (There is an aerosol available.) Then a wiping varnish such as one of the Waterlox sheens could be used as a top coat.

[glenn bradley]

A very light DE-WAXED shellac sounds just right for this. It could act as an initial sealer (you're past that now) and also to seal your color before your Sam's although I agree that Sam's is deisgned for bare wood. Since you have stained I think it is safe to assume that you are not relying on the Maloof mix for your colorant. As ALWAYS, test your finishing regiment on scrap so you'll know what you're gonna get on the real thing.

[Aaron Cain]

Thanks Guys I appreciate the help.

I allready have the project stained I was working on scrap pieces before I top coated the project. I will pick up a can of aerosol Dewaxed Shellac. That is the clear stuff made by Bulls Eye right?

Thanks Again
Aaron

[Greg Cuetara]

If you utilize the sanding sealer shellac in spray can make sure that you have plenty of ventilation for an extended period of time. I sprayed items in my basement and it took a long time for the smell to dissapate. I also sprayed some shellac in my garage with open windows and a half open garage door for many days and the shellac smell still lingered. I am currently finishing a few projects and used the shellac as a sealer and then I am using waterlox as a top coat. I think Steve suggested it to me in another post and I am very glad that he did because I am very happy with the look. Exactly what I was looking for.
Good Luck.