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Thread: Epilog Helix vs. Universal PLS 4.60

  1. #1

    Epilog Helix vs. Universal PLS 4.60

    I’m writing this as an informational post that, if done correctly (which is highly unlikely), then it should show some differences in the Epilog and Universal machines. I encourage others to add to this review. I'm no expert and I'm new to lasers so I could very well have said something that is incorrect. My comparison would be between the Epilog Helix and the Universal PLS4.60. Both are 45W. Both have a travel range of 24” x 18”.

    You can click on any photos for larger one's to appear so you can see the details better.

    Weight :

    Epilog Helix - 180lbs
    Universal PLS4.60 - 270lbs

    Motion system :

    Helix - Uses servo motors, belt, pulley, and encoder strip. Carriage assembly rides on 2 Thompson shafts that are on the left and right of the machine. The shaft on the left hand side sits in fixed Delrin like material bushings. The right hand shaft sits in two Delrin like bushings that rest in slots, so the shaft can move, as it floats in the bracket. This design removes the need to align the shafts with each other. This design is also quite rigid at each end, but allows for deflection in the middle of the range, as the shaft is able to flex with no support other than at the 2 ends on the left hand side.

    PLS4.60 - Uses high speed stepper motors, belt and pulley system. Carriage assembly rides on two rail systems affixed to the inside of the cabinet. The rails are lined up and locked in place. They are 1 ½” x 1 ¼” machined aluminum. The carriage rides on these rails via a series of Kevlar rollers which are spring loaded that pull against each other to keep the tension level high as to keep any vibration from entering the motion system. This system is very rigid and there is no play in the system.

    p1.jpg

    Cabinet :

    Not a big difference in size from one machine to the other. The ULS is perhaps a few inches larger. The most noticeable difference is the solid glass lid on the ULS, which makes it Rohm compliant (some European standard that requires no lead to be used in the machine?). The lid is heavy and has 2 gas struts, one on each side, to assist in opening the lid. Both machines have a storage shelf under the body of the machine, built into the stand.

    p2.jpg

    Focus :
    There is a substantial difference in the way the two machines deal with focusing the laser. In some respects, they can be identical. With both machines, for the laser to react properly, it needs to be set a certain distance from the object it’s burning.

    On the Epilog, you have two choices, automatic and manual focus. On the head where the mirror rests, there is a small plunger. When you select Auto Focus and hit the start button, the machine will go to the first area of the burn and the table will rise (Z-Axis) until the work hits the plunger. When that hits, it backs itself down a predetermined amount and the machine, in theory, is in focus. It appears to work quite well. The second method is to use Manual Focus and set the distance yourself. There is a gauge that comes with the machine that’s held onto the mirror assembly with small magnets. You place the gauge on the machine and you press up/down buttons on the control panel until that gauge moves slightly. You are then in focus. Automatic focus is nice if you have one part, but if you have more than one of the same part to run, it can be a real pain. Once it’s focused, it’s no need to focus it every time you change your material. It takes 10 seconds or so to focus automatically, so if you want to run multiple sheets of material, then you’ll either have to send the job over twice, once with automatic and once with manual focus selected, it you’ll have to use manual focus and take the time to manually focus that first job, which takes about 60 seconds. If you change material thickness, you need to refocus the beam to that material thickness. If you do a large number of small quantity jobs, and they vary in thickness, you would have to focus each one of the jobs.

    On the ULS, you can manually focus the machine as well. There is a gauge that goes against the mirror assembly and touches your work. Once it moves, you are all set. However, there is a substantial difference in the way the automatic side of it works. In the driver, one question it asks is "Material Thickness" (if you are using the materials database, or if not, then it shows up as a “Z-Axis” setting). You can type the thickness or click up/down arrows to enter the size. Once you do that, you’re all set. The machine knows where the Z-Axis is at all times, and it knows how far from the focal plane the table is. What that allows for is for you to change jobs with varying material thicknesses, and never having to refocus the machine to adjust for it. It does it automatically. There is also an “Automatic Focus” that uses sensors inside the cabinet that shoot light (or some signal) across the bed and it reads the top of the material.

    Air Assist :
    There are substantial differences in the two air assist systems.
    Helix- The air assist on the Helix consists of an input on the back of the machine, which goes into a solenoid, then through a spiral formed tiny air hose that goes across the i-beam and into a small metal tube that is bent downwards to blow air on the area being burned. It requires a small, airbrush type compressor that usually costs $50 or less. You turn the air assist compressor on and it gently blows mild air out until the command for a vector cut is received. Once that signal comes in to the solenoid, it opens the airflow up to a max of 30psi (taken from the label on the back of the machine that says "30 PSI Max"). With the advanced color mapping, there are settings to control whether or not the air assist is used at all, in rastering, vectoring, or both.

    PLS- You have two choices on air assist, non-computer controlled and computer controlled. We have the computer controlled variation, so I can only comment on that. It requires a larger volume of air than the Helix. I believe the manual suggests 3.0 CFM at 60PSI, which you won’t get from a hobby store airbrush compressor. There are several differences in this system. At the location of each mirror within the system, there are tiny filtered outlets. These are at all locations inside the operator section of the cabinet as well as under covers. When you turn on air assist, it blows tiny amount of air at each mirror location to prevent contaminates from settling on the mirrors. Around the mirror assembly where the lens is, there the air comes out in a wash, but also has a nose cone that you install. When you install the nose cone (one of the smallest set screws you’ll ever see), the air is directed right down on the cut. The beam actually travels through the middle of the cone. In the print driver, you select the color (black, red, etc.) and you associate different air settings for different colors. For instance, you may want 25 PSI for rastering, and then wide open for vectoring, or off completely. You set that in the driver and regulates the flow as it’s running. It’s a very sophisticated system. One thing you cannot do is run the machine with the air off and the nose cone on. It says that it will cause a vacuum and pull up debris into the lens area and prematurely damage the lens. A larger compressor to handle this can run some good money and can be quite loud if it’s in the same room. ULS offers a compressor for this, but it’s quite expensive, in the thousands of dollars. Also, the air must be particle free and dry air, meaning you’ll need some sort of filter and air drier.

    p3.jpg

    Print Driver
    Helix - Comes with a print driver that has a variety of features. For most normal jobs, you’ll use the basics of the driver. You click the print button from your software package, then you select the "printer", which would be the Helix, and then you select the advanced tab, which brings up a variety of options. From there you have control over raster speed/power as well as vector speed/power. You select the power/speed setting by looking at a table provided in the user manual. It gives different settings for common materials depending on the DPI you output as. You can select the output to be 300,400,600, or 1200 DPI while rastering, and when Vector cutting, you select the frequency between 1-1000. Once you get the settings where you want them, you can save them for that material. The settings are for that particular thickness material only. If you manually tweak settings and change them, and don’t save them, they are gone forever.

    PLS- The PLS system works a little differently. The driver is really integrated into a piece of job control software. You follow the same steps, you print from your software, click on the advanced tab, and you’ll be looking at a screen that has two tabs, one manual, one automatic. In the automatic mode, you have a selection of types of materials (Stone, Wood, Glass, Metal, etc.). You select the category and up comes a list of predefined materials. You select that material, enter the thickness, and you are done. You enter the material thickness for 2 reasons. One for the machine to focus, and two is so the machine can use the correct power. They have cut the materials, thick and thin, and entered those parameters. It uses those parameters to adjust the power/speed settings for the thickness you input. You can enter new categories or new materials as you wish and it’s a fairly complete method of doing it. It appears that once you have set a material up, it’s pretty much set for good, no matter what thickness of that material you use in the future. That’s the theory. I have not used it long enough to know how true this is.

    If you select the manual mode, then you have control over a variety of things as well. The color mapping is done from here, mapping different powers/speed/air assist options. This next section is a little different from the Helix, as you have two settings for rastering, one is PPI and one is Image Density. The PPI controls the spacing between the dots it burns moving in the X-Axis. The Image Density controls the amount of dots in the Y-Axis. You can also select "Image Enhancement" which brings up 4 more fine tuning options. You can control "Density, Contrast, Definition and Tuning". There is a procedure for tuning each piece of material for maximum clarity of the image. It involves burning test patterns and text and then adjusting each of those 4 controls until the image is razor sharp. Once you set that, you can save it so you don’t have to do it again.

    Once you agree to all and send the job to the printer, you are really sending it to a job control program. It keeps track of all the jobs ran, the times, settings, etc. You can specify the number of jobs to retain information for. Default is 2000. From here, you are looking at a graphic representation of the table and what’s in that job. You have a set of buttons that replicate the buttons on the machine. You can press them on the screen and it acts as if you pressed the button on the actual machine. You can start, pause, stop jobs in progress from your computer. There is an estimate feature where it will simulate running the job and give you a time. It appears to be fairly close in the jobs I have tested. Once you hit the "Go" button and the laser is burning, you’ll see the screen simulate what’s actually being cut on the machine, line by line. You can minimize that at any time or open it up and any time.

    Rotary attachment :

    Helix- The Epilog system is a unit that has two sets of dual rollers, one end fixed, one end moves back and forth and has a jack screw mechanism which allows you to raise and lower that end. It's basically aluminum discs with o-ring grooves cut in them and then o-rings installed. You just lay the item on the rollers, adjust the one end so the surface is level. When you turn off the machine and install the rotary attachment and turn it back on, it recognizes the rotary attachment and sets the y-axis zero to be on the centerline of the rotary unit. It's incredibly simple to use, but not extremely accurate in it's rotation. The item being engraved just floats on the rotating o-rings, so it can slip or move minute amounts which can cause some accuracy issues if you are doing precision rotary work. If you are just doing simple engraving on a bottle or glass, this shouldn't be an issue.

    PLS- The Universal approach is very different. The unit is much beefier (if that's a technical term) and it consists of a set of centers. One side is mounted (where the motor is) and one side slides back and forth. Each side has an aluminum cone, one concave, one convex with rubber strips on the angled surfaces. You “sandwich” the item between the two cones and lock the tailstock down. It appears to be good for glasses and similar items, but doing things such as drumsticks or pens, or small round, solid objects is going to require some engineering on your part. You can remove the discs and make things to hold various items, but that all takes time. This item is no where near as easy or quick to use as the Epilog model. You really have to start to say “how am I going to hold this” when you have rotary projects for this. Also, the “headstock” and “tailstock” areas are quite tall, and doing something very small, such as a pen could run into some interference problems with the laser head hitting the headstock or tailstock. It might be okay, I haven't tried it, but just looking at it, it's going to be VERY tight and close and you'd have to be very careful not to crash the machine. Having said all of that, it's very accurate and geared towards a much higher level of precision. In the driver, there is a scaling factor that will allow you to make some very fine adjustments to the rotation to make it perfect.

    p4.jpg

    Vector Table :

    Helix – The Helix comes with a honeycomb table that has a piece of stainless steel (magnetic stainless at that) on top of that, which has some small holes in it. The vector table looks to be about 1/2” to 5/8” thick. You don't want to push it, as it will bend and cause the material not to sit flat. There are two holes in the back of the bed where it pulls exhaust through. It does a reasonable job. To do non-vector cutting work, you pivot the guide rulers up and put the stainless sheet down, then close the rulers back down.

    PLS – The PLS has a separate vector cutting table which has to be installed and removed each time. The vector table is a sheet metal box about 6 inches deep with a honeycomb top on it. Noticeably different is the thickness of the honeycomb table. It appears to be about 1” thick or maybe slightly more. Same type material as the Epilog (appears to be). The backside of the vector table has a piece of ducting that you can adjust. You set the table in the machine and then adjust the ductwork flush with the back of the machine. You lock that in and it's all set for good. What happens there is when it's cutting, the ductwork lines up with the opening in the back of the cabinet. It draws considerably more air through that system than the Epilog. Block off the top of the table that's outside of your work area and it's enough airflow to pull a vacuum and hold your thin work down. It is an expensive option, but if you cut through material, you don't have much choice. When you remove it, you are left with a solid aluminum table that's about 3/4” thick with rulers on the edges.

    Laser Replacement and Alignment

    Helix – There are a variety of reasons you will have to align the laser. One being, if you remove the laser from the cabinet. I'll talk about that process rather than what could be other reasons for having to align it. You must remove the back cover to expose access to the laser tube itself. You will need to remove several screws and unplug several connections to allow the tube to come out. Once the laser comes out, it will need to be realigned regardless if it's a replacement or the original. There are several steps to doing that alignment. You have to first line up the red dot pointer. There is a plastic cap with a target on it that goes in a spot on the side of the mirror assembly. You turn the red dot pointer on and see where it hits the target. You use a series of three screws to adjust the the pointer to the center of the target. You have to make sure it hits the center of the target in the 4 corners of the table. Once that's done, you cover the target with tape, send a job over and have it burn a mark on the tape in the top left corner. You note the relationship between the burn mark and the red dot pointer. There are 3 (I think ) sets of mirror adjustments that move the beam in various locations on the table. You follow a guide that tells you which mirror you adjust for each point on the table. You do this in 3 of the corners of the table, with the 4th corner being a byproduct of the adjustments of the other 3. Once those burn marks line up with the center mark on the target in all 4 corners, the laser is aligned. The tubes used are made by Coherent Laser.

    PLS – The PLS has a cover on the back side of the machine that has two quick release devices that, when pressed, opens up and exposes the laser tube. You unhook the cables, lift the laser up and it comes off. No screws. To install it, you reverse that, and it's done. There is no need to align the laser. Doesn't matter if it's the same tube or a new one, or even a different wattage tube. The tubes are made by Universal Laser.

    At the time of writing this, the cost to recharge the laser tube is considerably less expensive on the Universal versus the Epilog.


    p5.jpg

    I am sure I could have gone into a lot more detail, but my hopes were to put this up and allow others to offer up either more technical information or ask questions. It's not by any means meant to say one is better than the other, only to point out the differences in the two to help people make an educated buying decision. I firmly believe that both machines have markets and there is a lot of overlap in that market area. However, there are areas where they do not overlap and one clearly does something the other does not, or does the same task better, which might be something that a potential buyer needs. For example, there are some real differences in the rotary attachment that could easily be a deciding factor for someone looking to do a lot of small rotary work. Or there may be someone who requires a high degree of accuracy in their rotary work. One's not better than the other, they are just different.

    It is highly likely that I have said something that is incorrect on both machines. If so, please note it and I'll edit the post to correct it. I hope this is helpful to someone who is considering purchasing a machine. You don't find much information comparing models, but rather just people saying they are pleased with their machines. Hopefully we can get some more people to offer up some comparisons between machines if they are in a position to do so.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  2. #2
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    Now that I've had an opportunity to use my latest system (ULS PLS4.60), I thought it easier to simply bump Steve's post rather than start a fresh one. It's also a nod to Steve's great skill not only as a writer but as a troubleshooter... because of his help I was able to successfully laser my first item (blue painter's tape ) without freaking out that my laser was broken after sitting for a week unused. I still have not spent nearly enough time as I would like to on it, but I have played enough that I feel comfortable giving my initial thoughts.

    In the final days, my decision was coming down to a ULS, Epilog, or Trotec system. After speaking with one of the guys on this board (a name that now escapes me), I was told a local Trotec rep would contact me... he did the next day, we discussed what options were available, and I requested pricing details on two different machines with those options. And that was the last I heard from him No further emails, no further calls... I don't know what happened, but I was already too close to make a decision to try and track down a sales rep. Trotec was out.

    Now it's narrowed to Epilog and ULS. Both were very fine machines, but in the end it's obvious I chose the ULS. While pricing did play a partial role in the decision (the unit I picked up was being offered at a decent price), there were several factors that pushed the ULS to the front of the pack for me. I am not here to bash Epilog, I'm simply pointing out my reasons for choosing the ULS system over it.

    Rotary: While this appears to go unused by most, I knew a large part of my business (at least initially) would be rotary based, so I wanted to make sure this unit would work flawlessly. The Epilog rotary design appeared too likely to let items slip, particularly if lopsided in weight (such as a heavy mug handle), and indexing would be guesswork. The ULS design was chuck-based, and I had the option of having new chuck faces milled and instaled with simply a set screw.

    Air: I really liked the air curtain ULS provides across it's optics, which cuts down on contamination. I don't believe this is something Epilog offers, and if so, I'm not sure why they don't. I already had a 33-gal. shop compressor, so I only needed to add a filter and dehydrator to the line. My machine came with the non-computer controlled setup, but I would like to upgrade to the computer-controlled version. As it stands now, I must manually turn the air supply on/off between runs... not a big deal, but an annoyance. I imagine the addition of a separate keyfob-controlled electronic valve would be a nice addition... not computer-controlled, but better.

    Print Driver: I opened up the materials-based version once and never looked at it again. Due to the great info on this board, I have stayed with the manual control screens. I like the general layout and feel of the ULS driver, but I have a few nitpicks with it, too. For example, the "Quality" setting (dpi) is a slider of 1-6... there is no mention of what dpi each value refers to in the manual, and it is not shown anywhere on screen (I only know what it is by writing it down while the rep was here during installation). That's just bad user-interface design (something I'm particularly attuned to due to my job as a software guy who designs for the end-user). There is also a not-so-clear connection between two different "Accept Settings" button (the 'Set' and 'Apply' buttons), why two are needed instead of one, and how they interact with each other. Overall useful, but still needs work. I also have similar nitpick type complaints about the Control Panel that pops up when you finally hit 'OK' on the print job. I could go into more detail if anyone would like me to...

    Focus: Even disregarding the fact that people appear to be disconnecting or disregarding their Epilog's autofocus function (due to failures, head crashes, slow speed, whatever), I feel the ULS design is more intuitive if not as "Plug n' Play" as some would like. I feel more comfortable grabbing the item in question and measuring it with a pair of calipers than I do throwing it in the machine and letting it try to measure for me. Once I calibrate the machine to the table height, I simply plug in the material thickness and drop it in the machine. This may be more of a personal decision for some, but I'm glad the ULS machine does it this way.

    Servo vs. Stepper:They're both a good choice these days for the majority of work we do... I've programmed a number of firmware designs for control of these motors, so I speak from experience on the pitfalls and pros of both types. What I didn't like about the Epilog was it's use of an encoder strip. No issues with the strip itself, mind you, just its unfortunate ability to get dirty and lose a step right in the middle of a project. Yes, steppers can lose steps and go bad, too... but I don't have to clean the motors from time to time. The epilog would do the same if it used steppers or servos, so that's not the point... it's the weak point of a dirty encoder strip I wasn't a fan of.



    Now, all of that said, if I had decided on the Epilog instead of the ULS I would be offering my thoughts on its high points... but I bought the ULS, so I'm only able to offer that point of view. Feel free to point out where I have missed anything.
    Last edited by Dan Hintz; 02-10-2009 at 7:53 PM. Reason: Removed incorrect name
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
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  3. #3
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    Dan,

    Only one thing I would like to clear up "I am not a Trotec Rep."
    Mike Mackenzie
    Sales and Service of Universal Laser Systems

  4. #4
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    Regarding the rotary attachment, Epilog recognised that some were having difficulties with slippage and in the latest install of drivers, they have changed the way in which it engraves. There is no longer any unecessary movement which caused judder.

    Regarding the alignment of the laser. I've had my machine for 2 and a half years and I have yet to make any adjustment to the lens focus and alignment.

    Well there is one other thing that should be pointed out. The Helix is a much sexier looking machine. The reason why it takes so long to get the laser unit out is probably because it doesn't blow as quick as other machines. Quality. Epilog ROCKS!!!!
    Epilog 45w Helix X3/X5 Corel Microflame Generator (flame polisher) Heat Bender


  5. #5
    I thought I had set a standard for this thread. Obviously it is a record to be up over a year with no other posts and no "Yeah, well mine is better" posts on in.

    Then we let Frank in.....

    I think Dan and I have both pointed out some of the differences in an effort to help a prospective buyer. I personally don't like our rotary. I never use it. I used the one on my Epilog. Having said that, if you do a certain type of work, precision work, on a diameter, then the features of the ULS are very powerful. You can adjust things to be dead perfect around a circumference. It's a very very very precision rotary tool.

    However, it's a pain in the tail to use because you have to make a way to hold most all of your parts.

    There is no right or wrong in either of these models. If you have specific needs, one might work better for you than the other.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  6. #6
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    Sorry, Mike... your name was on the tip of my tongue, obviously for another reason. I removed it from the post...
    Hi-Tec Designs, LLC -- Owner (and self-proclaimed LED guru )

    Trotec 80W Speedy 300 laser w/everything
    CAMaster Stinger CNC (25" x 36" x 5")
    USCutter 24" LaserPoint Vinyl Cutter
    Jet JWBS-18QT-3 18", 3HP bandsaw
    Robust Beauty 25"x52" wood lathe w/everything
    Jet BD-920W 9"x20" metal lathe
    Delta 18-900L 18" drill press

    Flame Polisher (ooooh, FIRE!)
    Freeware: InkScape, Paint.NET, DoubleCAD XT
    Paidware: Wacom Intuos4 (Large), CorelDRAW X5

  7. #7
    As a prospective buyer I love these types of posts. One thing that no one realy wants to proach is the longgevity of the tubes and the average cost of getting up and running again.

    I understand this is the most expensive maintenance on the machine and failure is inevitable. As a buisness owner I realy need to know these fugures both to help qualify the purchase and to set costs.

    I cant trust the manufacturs as there tube life estimates are outrageous and from what I read totaly untrue.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Simpson Virgina View Post
    As a prospective buyer I love these types of posts. One thing that no one realy wants to proach is the longgevity of the tubes and the average cost of getting up and running again.

    I understand this is the most expensive maintenance on the machine and failure is inevitable. As a buisness owner I realy need to know these fugures both to help qualify the purchase and to set costs.

    I cant trust the manufacturs as there tube life estimates are outrageous and from what I read totaly untrue.

    Mike that is almost like a trick question. Some people have a laser tube that goes on and on with no given end date. Each laser machine is different, on varying amounts of time and usage. It is a little bit like putting a lightbulb in the house, you just hope it's not going to go soon, others have lightbulbs that never get turned off but last for years and years. I have had my laser since 2005 and the power from the beam seems to be just as strong as the day it was put in. I have seen a few on this site who only had theirs for a year and had to replace it. As to finding out what it is going to be worth to you, would depend on how much you make from the machine over a given time and the estimated life span of the tube supplied by the manufacturer. Even they cannot be precise, which is why I said it is almost like a trick question.
    Epilog 45w Helix X3/X5 Corel Microflame Generator (flame polisher) Heat Bender


  9. #9
    Thanks, Scott! Very interesting to see a detailed technical comparison, not the usual "I rock, you suck" stuff The only things missing are some side by side comparisons of finished work, done with same or very similar materials, graphics and settings.

    I looked seriously at a Universal but went with Epilog partly because of a close comparison with the raster engraving on demo samples. I think the Epilog is better for the precision miniature work that I do. The difference is small, but small differences are important down there at the macro level where I work. I do consistently crisp raster engraving, and I can reproduce extremely fine lines, even with the general purpose 2" lens. I'm very pleased with what I can do.

    On the other hand, Epilog's vector cutting will often show tremors-- the higher the speed the more apparent they are. Again, I am talking about things you see at a macro level under magnification. There are a number of ways to get around it, like ramping down the speed on curves, so its not a big problem. But Universal appears to have the edge here. The few samples done on a Universal which I have inspected in hand do not have the vector cutting tremors. For that reason, I'll take another serious look at Universal if ever I'm in the market for a new laser.

    I was just a little surprised by this thread, reporting a squiggle issue at higher speeds on a Universal.

    http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=108633

    Why can't the big 2 make it easier to decide???

    Dave
    Epilog 35 W 12x24
    Adobe Illustrator
    Dell PC

  10. #10
    Well I bought by my Epilog after doing a lot of research and hearing from you guy's , The old saying " you get what you pay for" comes to mind with my experience. The first week of owning the machine all was well and I was extremely happy with my purchase.
    The second week the Gremlins payed a visit and things went south from there, Epilog have been out standing as well as my local sale's guy, phone calls to Tech support have always been quick and decisive and parts dispatched overnight for next day.
    Even though it never solved the problem Epilog stepped up the gear and picked the machine up and are testing it out at the moment, with frequent updates from everyone involved it has been a good experience even though frustrating , I wonder how many other companies are prepared to do this all in one week.
    Epilog Legend EXT 60w-Corel X4
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    There's a lot more good than evil,
    and there's a lot more joy than pain.

    "Yea, though I walk through the valley
    of the shadow of death,
    I will fear no evil:
    for thou art with me;
    thy rod and thy staff
    they comfort me."

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    230
    David,

    I have to slow down my vector engraving to below 10% spd to get no squiggle (technical term) when engraving extreme small text in vector format. I usually like to stay closer to 4% spd when I have text smaller than 12 point that I am vector engraving.


    I don't do a lot of small vector work and what I've done, I am happy with my ULS. I was torn between ULS and Epilog when I purchased. Epilog has done a much better job advertising when I purchased mine and all the youtube videos were using an Epilog. What sold it for me was the ULS rep actually stopped by my house with a demo where the Epilog rep wanted me to visit him 300 miles away.

    From what I've seen on this site over the years, both Epilog and ULS are great machines.
    __________________________________
    ULS X-660, 60Watt, Corel X3, Photograv

  12. #12
    David, I'm not sure how much detail you are trying to do or what machine you tested on the ULS side, or who tested it, but I do small detailed items quite frequently. I have a repeat job that uses 3 point lower case text and I engrave that at 100% speed all the time. I couldn't do that without the ability to tune the material using the Image Enhance tool. Both makes do well. If you want detail, look at what ULS does with their high density optics systems. Beam diameter is less than .001".

    Dave, glad you are having a good experience. I had a bad experience. Unlike you, I fought with them for 6-8 months before they finally took my machine back.

    As Bob said, both machines are backed by good companies. I will say there are some serious differences in the details, but many people who buy lasers never push them to the extreme limits so many of those features go unnoticed or unused. I have found flaws with both machines. I've reported them to both companies. Some they fix, some they don't.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    463
    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Cole View Post
    David,

    I have to slow down my vector engraving to below 10% spd to get no squiggle (technical term) when engraving extreme small text in vector format. I usually like to stay closer to 4% spd when I have text smaller than 12 point that I am vector engraving.

    I can't vector engrave faster than 5% or I get squiggles, no matter how large the vector lines are. Even if it is only vertical and horizontal lines, I get squiggles. Not happy with it since at 5%, some of my work takes a loooong time to engrave.
    George
    ______________________________
    ULS X-660 60 Watt
    Corel X4, Wacom Intuos 3, Photograv 3, Inkscape, CAMASTER 4x4 with 4th axis

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    230
    George that is interesting as we have the same machine. Larger items I can easily use 10 and not have any squiggles. I don't go any higher than 10 though no matter how large.

    If you want to send me a test file, I will run it on my machine at different speeds so we can compare. Send me PM.
    __________________________________
    ULS X-660, 60Watt, Corel X3, Photograv

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    1,125
    Bob & George,

    The squiggles can be corrected to a point the reason for them is due to the length of the X arm and a resonance effect that happens.

    The first thing to do is to let me know what firmware version you are running on your systems.

    We can take it a step at a time until we can get it better.

    Also we have the exact system here and would be willing to test your files as well.

    Let me know.
    Mike Mackenzie
    Sales and Service of Universal Laser Systems

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