Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 31

Thread: Marking Knives

  1. #1

    Marking Knives

    Here are some Snakewood and one Indian Rosewood marking knives I just finished making. The blades are only 5/16" wide and are much nicer for small work than my 3/4" wide bladed Lee Valley. While the LV works fine for most uses, it is just too awkward for marking the pins on really small dovetails. The steel for the blades is O1 from MSC Industrial Supply and the ferrules are brass from LV at about $.16 each.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Grand Marais, MN. A transplant from Minneapolis
    Posts
    5,513

    Thumbs up

    Dave,
    You have been quiet for a while......and very productive.
    Those are nice! Gifts, 4 sale items, or does a Neander use that many?

    Still trying to learn the rules of this game.
    TJH
    Live Like You Mean It.



    http://www.northhouse.org/

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Roanoke, Illinois
    Posts
    863
    Dave

    Those are really nice. I made one last year after seeing your other marking knife. I don't know why I waited so long. They are so handy.

    Terry

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Laguna Beach , Ca.
    Posts
    7,201
    Excellent! They look great and are probably great to use!
    "All great work starts with love .... then it is no longer work"

  5. #5

    Well Tyler....

    Mostly the tools I make are for gifts since they are fairly labor intensive and I am not geared for production. I demo toolmaking with hand tools each year at the Canterbury Shaker Village Wood Days at the end of June and last year I was almost being harrassed by a few folks wanting to buy stuff. I demurred, but have since re-evaluated. I am makiing a limited number of tools over the next few months to sell to our guild members and at Canterbury. My labor rate and profits will be abysmal, but maybe it can provide a few extra bucks for some new toys. I had a hobby as a side business once before (sea kayak imports and tours) and after 5 years it became a burden and the joy went out of it. I am determined not to let that happen again, hence the very low key approach. I do NOT want this to eat up all my time, have to deal with rushing to meet deadlines, or end up feeling that things are a drudge. I'll just make a few when the mood hits me, put them on display, and when they are gone that's the end until I feel motivated again (if ever). Obviously it's not exactly a hard charging business plan. For me the fun is in figuring out the design and how to build the item. My designs tend to be low tech and mostly 18th-19th century adapted to what I personally desire to own. My bowsaws are a classic example, I adapted a design I liked, made a few and it'll be a long time before I make any more. If I had to sell the bowsaws they would be over $200 because of all the hand work and the PIA of working with tiger maple and the dozen or more coats of shellac for a finish. Hand making handtools in small volume is not exactly a path to riches.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Posts
    2,266
    I have been thinking about doiing some also. Do you have a product number, or some such thing, on the steel?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    1,572
    Dave Jeske of Blue Spruce Toolworks makes this type knife for sale, very nice, as are yours Dave.

    Pam

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Grand Marais, MN. A transplant from Minneapolis
    Posts
    5,513
    Most impressive indead. I admire your approach.
    PS it is OK to show the wine glass now you're not working with the sharp objects.
    TJH
    Live Like You Mean It.



    http://www.northhouse.org/

  9. #9

    Answer for Alan

    The O1 tool steel is available in either an 18" or 36" length from MSC Industrial Supply at www.msc.com. They will ship to homes and businesses and you can use a credit card. If you go online or have access to their big catalog you will find about 3000+ pages of shop and industrial supplies. There's very little you can't buy from them. I don't have a part number for the material, but you can do a search on their website. Another source is McMaster-Carr at www.mcmaster.com. These folks will get your order to you with either one to two days depending on where you live. Both places are pricey per unit you purchase, but actual very inexpensive since they will sell small quantity and they don't have minimum orders. If you work for any large or medium sized industrial company go down to either the machine shop, purchasing, or maintenence and see if they have an extra copy of the big catalog or an out of date one they'll give you. You can always check the price on the net. Unfortunately their catalogs are very expensive to produce and there's no way a hobbyist or small user can get one sent to him.

    These places are also good sources for abrasives, safety items, inspection equipment, brass sheet rod or tube, and almost any raw material except wood. Their hardware selection boggles the mind. You could spend weeks leafing through the catalogs.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pa
    Posts
    2,266
    Dave,
    Thanks for the info. I do have the MSC Direct cat., and they send it to me each year, no problem. It is where I source my rasps and files. I just don't know metal. Did you have a special technique for cutting, sharpening? Did you have to temper the steel? Etc. As I say, wood is my game, and metal is new and intimidating to me.
    Alan

  11. #11
    Dave,

    Alan beat me to it, but I wanted ask whether you heat treated the blades also. Can you please give some details of how you attached the blade to the your handles? Those knives look like an excellent project to start doing some metal work and tool making.

    Wendell

  12. #12

    Alan and Wendell

    Yes, the steel has to be heat treated to harden it so that it will hold an edge. As purchased, the O1 is full annealed so that it cuts nicely with a hacksaw and is easily shaped with files, a bench grinder, or a belt sander, or all of the above.

    There are libraries full of books on metalurgy and the techniques for hardening and tempering metals. Unfortunately I don't have the time to make this a life of research- like you guys I'm a woodworker. With a little research, the aid of some data sheets on ANSI O1 steel, and some advice from friends, I found a simple technique.

    Smiths, and others used to dealing with heated steel, can tell temperatures by whether the color is red, cherry red, dark red, black red, and a whole bunch of other colors. This is a bit subjective for my taste and it also depends on the light you are working in and whether or not you've been fortunate enough to have someone experienced to point out the colors. Surface pyrometers and all kinds of other gear are also out of the question for most folks.

    My technique is suitable for small stuff only since I only have a standard store bought propane torch. I take my workpiece and clamp it in my visegrips as far from the end being heated as possible. I grab a flat bladed screwdriver and attach a medium sized rare earth magnet near the tip of the blade. I put a small metal container with oil (for quenching) nearby for convenience. Things are now ready for hardening.

    Set the torch upright on the bench and turn it on. Do not hold it, you'll need both hands for other things very soon. Pick up the visegrips with the blade clamped in place and place as much of the business end of the blade as possible into the flame. Things should be heating up now and slowly the steel will begin to change color and move toward some form of red. In your other hand you have the screwdriver with the magnet. Carefully and slowly bring it toward the heated portion of the steel. You should feel the magnetic attraction. While keeping the steel in the flame, keep moving the magnet toward and away from the steel constantly feeling to see if there is an attraction. AT THE POINT AT WHICH THE MAGNETIC ATTRACTION DISAPPEARS AND YOU CAN TOUCH THE MAGNET TO THE STEEL WITHOUT ATTRACTION THE STEEL IS AT THE PROPER HARDENING TEMPERATURE. Immediately remove the steel from the flame and plunge it into the oil and swirl it around. Congratulations, you have just successfully hardened your blade. To soften things slightly to prevent edge chipping on a striking tool or a cutting edge subject to abuse, wait till SWMBO leaves the house. Place the steel blade on a cookie tray and bake it in a preheated oven for 15 minutes at 325F.

    Notes:

    1) Protective and safety equipment should be readily accessible: gloves, fire extinguisher, wear safety glasses

    2) The loss of magnetism in the steel at the correct heat treating temperature signifies the change in the austenite to marstentite. (sp)

    3. Excercise caution-- obviously all this stuff is hot and can burn you badly. Let things cool down before handling.

    4. This info is accurate ONLY for O1 or other oil hardening steels. Annealing temps can be different for different thicknesses and grades of steel. Check it out on a data sheet for recommended temps.

    5. I will NOT be responsible if SWMBO comes home and catches you using the oven in this manner. You are on your own Bubba.

    6. One final note- do not grind or sharpen your cutting edge all the way to a fine edge before heat treating. If you do, when heating the steel you run the risk of burning off the carbon in the steel (decarburizing) and the steel won't hold an edge. Do your final sharpening and honing after all the heat treating work is finished.
    Last edited by Dave Anderson NH; 02-13-2004 at 3:21 PM.
    Dave Anderson

    Chester, NH

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Virginia
    Posts
    14,760
    Dave,

    Thanks for the tutorial on hardening, I can barely remember high school shop when I last did any type of real metal hardening and quenching.

    The knives are just awesome!

  14. #14

    Ahem, I think you mean piratinera guianensis

    Dave:

    Beautiful job, as always. That snakewood handle is really striking, and of course the brass ferrules add a classy touch. Honestly, I don't know why anyone uses regular steel ferrules anymore.

    I'll echo Keith's appreciation for the tutorial on heat treating. It is now cut and pasted in my ever growing notes on handtools.

    But really Dave, austenitetomarsentite? You might as well have told me that the loss of magnatism is because the heat scares off a voodoo shamen that put a hex on the metal. Frankly I'm surprised you didn't refer to snakewood and Indian rosewood by their latin names.

    Oh, and your approach to casual toolmaking is very wise. No sense in ruining a perfectly good hobby.
    Marc

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Carmichael, Ca
    Posts
    366
    Dave your description of tempering steel takes me back to the days I was in high school and learning to work with the forge. Our first project was to make a cold chisel. I got it all polished up and it looked great. The shop teacher grabbed it with a pair of vise grips, took 4lb forging hammer wacked away at it. About 1/4 in. went flying off the end. He looked at me and said "Klug it doesn't look like you had it tempered properly. Do it again." I did and this time it passed the test. I'll always remember that lesson. I still wish I had a forge to work with because I really enjoyed it.

    DK

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •