New Project: Staircase remodel

[Chris Holleman]

Hey all,

Nice forum you guys have going here. I see there have been a number of threads about staircases in the past, and I've read through most of them. My particular project is remodeling the staircase in my house. It was previously covered with carpet, with pine treads and risers and the plan is to R&R the pine treads for oak, install a skirt board, and tile the risers to match the foyer. The folks over at the John Bridge tile forums have suggested a couple courses of action on how to prepare the risers to accept the tile while still maintaining the maximum amount of useable tread area. The one suggestion that i like the best is installing cleats 3/4" from the plumb face of the stringer and then installing 3/4" plywood between the stringers to bring the work surface flush with the plumb face of the stringer. Then, adding 1/4" cement board to my now flush and flat surface to accept the tile. Does anyone here think there would be any problems with this approach?

The next couple of questions I have have probaly been beaten to death, but...

When attaching the treads to the stringers, I've read that PL is great to use, but what kind of mechanical fasteners are best? Some say finish nail, some say screw. I personally think that screws would work best since they'll never back out. Proper application is to pre-drill and counter sink, then dowel and sand flush?

7 of my steps are open on one side. Most stair pictures I've seen have skirt boards here with returns on the treads. I'd like to not use the skirt board and just have the treads return against the drywall using scrolled stair brackets. I haven't seen many staircases like that and I'm wondering if there's a reason, or just personal preference.

When attaching the newel post to the bottom tread, should there be any additional support beneath the newel post, or would the newel post be sturdy enough with just a bolt?

I was going to purchase my hardware and ballustrade from www.stairsupplies.com They seem to have relatively straight forward hardware kits and decent prices on their ballustrade supplies (I want to use iron ballusters with an oak handrail and newel post) the treads I was going to source from the Homer since they have decent prices. Their treads already have returns as well. Can I do better elsewhere?

The trim in my house has been stained with Minwax in the Gold Oak flavor with a poly top coat. I've read here that finishes like that don't hold up over foot traffic. Can someone recommend a brand? I was going to finish after it's all in place. And lastly, the species I plan on using for the treads is Red Oak. Exactly how does this stain up? Will it inherently have red tones through the wood regardless of the stain used? My skirt board will dive into the base at the top and bottom of the stairs, and the existing base is pine. Would using oak for the skirt look the best even though it doesn't match the base?

Thanks for getting through all the above, I know I just wrote a book. Here's a photo of what I have to work with:





some of the foyer i just completed to better show the bottom:

[Ed Peters]

comfortable with the idea of tile on the stair risers. Tiles should not be in an area that can flex. Also, they will be subjected to the toes of shoes etc. That is an impact they would not normally see. You may be able to pull it off but I would never consider it.

Ed

[Lee Schierer]

I don't think tile on standard width treads is a good idea either. The treads will flex and the tile won't and the exposed edges aren't going to hold up. Instead of doweling the screw holes, get a plug cutter and cut plugs from similar grained wood to hide them. If the treads are going to get covered, then just fill the holes with wood filler and sand smooth.

[Richard Wolf]

Welcome Chris. Lots of questions, first as Lee and Ed said, I would try to avoid the tile work of the stairs, save it for some other areas of your house.
Attaching the treads, the PL works great with nails or screws. I like the screws with plugs cut to hide the heads but you must plan their location to avoid placing them at baluster locations and have a nightmare later on.
The use of scrolled stair brackets has never been a popular item, maybe just to Victorian looking, not sure. They are usually placed on the stringer and add a small detail to the staircase. Eliminating the wood stringer seems like you will lose some detail and make for an unusual look.
Keep in mind that your newel post will only be as strong as what you attach it to, if you feel you need blocking behind it, add it now.
The prices from Stair Supplies seems a little high, but I don't know where you live and I always buy wholesale.
Red oak is the norm for most stair work and doesn't look over red, but, it will never match pine that is stained golden oak. Get a scrap piece of oak and try your stain on it to see what you think?
MinWax makes a floor grade ploy which works well on stairs.
It's always difficult to supply all the answers to a lot of questions in a forum, but if you have any more questions, please contact me, and I will try to help you.

Richard

[Josh Youngman]

i like the tile in the foyer.

[Tom Slupek]

I would not put tiles on the stairs too many possibilities of cracking. Stairs flex too much. For tiles on a floor I put down thin set than backer board or Durock, screw it down to the joists and every about 6 inches or so.

I did my stairs about two years ago. The base on the stairs was pine. I could not take apart the stairs so I ended up cutting the original lip off flush with the riser and just retreading the stairs with read oak steps and risers. I used PL construction adhasive and 2" 16ga finish nails (pneumatic finish gun driven) to keep the treads in place. Before finishing the stairs I puttied up the holes, stained and polyurethaned everything. The finish matches pretty good to what was originally in the house. I used Minwax Colonial Maple 223 and 3 coats of Minwax fast drying Polyurethane, Clear Semi-Gloss. See the album for few pictures of how the stairs turned out. Started at the bottom and worked my way up.

http://picasaweb.google.com/TSlupek

Buy samples of stain at Menards (if you have one around) for $0.25 and try to match the finish in the rest of the house. I stained scraps of red oak that I had cut off to fit the stairs with the samples.

Just in case you can not fstain and clear the stairs before you need to use them cover them with heavy brown paper that you can pick up at any big box hardware store. It is easier to protect the raw wood than to try to clean it ore replce it.

[Chris Holleman]

Thanks for the responses guys.

There have been quite a few successful tile installations on risers over at the JB forums. The crtitical installation factor is isolating the tile from the tread above and below the riser. Mostly, this is done by leaving a 1/8" gap and using grout matching caulk to fill the void.

I think I may keep the skirt board on the side, as Victorian is NOT a look I'm going for. I guess it needs to be cut and installed prior to installing the treads.

Tom-

those stairs look great, and that finish looks pretty close to the color i want.

I'm still up in the air about nails vs. screws. seems the screws would have better holding power, but the nails would be less visible.


here are a few pics, but keep in mind that i'm only doing the risers, not the treads:

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/show...ghlight=stairs

the pic in this link is what i'm looking for:

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/show...ghlight=stairs

another set of pics towards the end here:

http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/show...ghlight=stairs

[Chris Holleman]

So what is the preferred method of mechanical fastening? will 2.5" 15 gauge finish nails hold well enough with the PL adhesive or should i use the finish head screws?

Does anyone buy their supplies online, or do most get it locally?

[Ben Grunow]

I would vote for new treads and wood risers as the tile may or may not work. I think you will spend more time fixing the old only to have pine (soft) instead of oak which will likely match the rail anyway.

I would, in the process, cut back the middle stringer and end stringer (2x material that everything is sitting on) and install a new 2x, ripped to fit between the bottom of the bottom tread and the top of the subfloor. THis would allow you to thru bolt or lag you newel to something substantial. Additionally I would notch it over the sleepers and screw/glue like mad there too. Cant do it later. I like PL premium as it is slightly flexible.

Ben