HDTV.......big screen advice.....HELP!

[Frank Hagan]

I was watching a Sony 46" LCD this last weekend at a relative's house in VA.

He had HD on his cable. The HD was astonishing on that set. The non-HD was a little weaker than my tube Sony 36" Trinatron.

If you get the LCD you gotta get HD. It's a HUGE difference.

I guess that's what has been holding me back. Except for people who show me the HD channels, the picture on the LCDs always look bad to me, even in the darkened show rooms in stores. Blacks are dark grays, and on several sets I've seen using Dish Network in people's homes, the expanded image shows even more of the highly compressed "digital artifacts" (blocks of color, ghosting, etc.) We watch a fair amount of TV, but we often watch non-HD channels. My 36" Toshiba tube TV has a much better picture on non-HD broadcasts. I hate the expanded, deformed image when they are 'stretched' on the new TVs, yet when you turn that feature off, it seems like the image is smaller on a 42" than it is on my 36" TV. So I'm thinking I would have to go to a 50" or larger to get the same picture size. I think my 36" TV has a 4:3 aspect ratio, and the newer ones have a 16:7 like a movie screen.

We looked at TVs in Sam's Club or Costco, where they had them stacked with the manufacturer's LCD TV in front and the matching Plasma behind and above it, and it was obvious the Plasma had a better picture, in every case. The store probably had a HD feed, but even in HD, the blacks on the Plasma were truly black, and the blacks on the LCDs were dark grays. Other colors were just as different, with reds and blues much better looking on the Plasmas. But the screen on the Plasmas has more "reflections" on it because it is a high gloss like our picture tube TV.

If Verizon ever gets their FiOS installation on our side of town, we'll probably switch to them over Dish Network, and consolidate our phone, TV and Internet, and then spring for a new TV. Until I'm able to get HD content reliably, I don't think I would be happy with a LCD or Plasma TV.

[Gary Keedwell]

I know what you mean Frank. I didn't want to get rid if my Sony 35 until it kicked the bucket. LOML and I kept close tabs on the big screens. We finally got the 46" Sony and the HD from Comcast. No turning back. We've had now for a few months and I'm still amazed every time I turn it on. Seems like their adding HD channels all the time. We must have close to 30 channels now.
I had my old TV for over 12 years and figured it might outlive me You only live once.

Gary

[Jim Becker]

One of the things on one's short list when shopping for a flat-screen TV is the quality and intelligence of the various "stretch" modes available for SD material. That was one of the reasons I bought the Sharp Aquos system a few years ago...the "Super Stretch" mode didn't visually distort the SD material. In fact, it was designed to render it with proper proportions. Given that most of us will still need to watch some proportion of SD material for some time to come, both off the cable provider (or OTA) and on DVDs that are not encoded as wide-screen, it's important to test these modes before plunking down your money, IMHO.

[Tim Morton]

Funny how folks see things differently. A number of times I've gone into the big box electronics stores and looked pictures, purposely not looking at price or brand. Each time, so far, I've picked the Westinghouse over everything else, regardless of price. Since I don't watch TV at all, (haven't been hooked up to an antenae or cable for 7 years) and watch only about 6 movies a year, I figured it was my lack of sophistication on the matter. With your comments about the Westinghouse having a good picture and working great, now I think it must of been my sophistication of appreciating value that was in play.

John

John this goes out to everyone...the reason you always pick the westinghouse could be that they tend to CRANK the color and contrast to the max on the set to capture in the showroom. Samsung is like that too...but then when you get it home and you realize your retina's are getting burnt from watching the picture you take out your trusty calibration DVD and you tune it to the correct settings...and you find that the picture is even better when the balances are correct.

cliffnotes.... unfortunately a TV showroom is the WORST place to evaluate picture quality... all the TV's have been cranked in the color and contrast to get your attention

[Pat Germain]

I bought a Panasonic 50" Plasma last year. Of course, the same TV is less expensive now, but you have to choose to just jump in. If you keep waiting for prices to go down, you'll just keep waiting while the world of HDTV passes you by.

Sony LCD TVs are very nice. In fact, Sony decided to go LCD only; no plasma from Sony. However, it seems LCD is still a little pricier than plasma.

I went with Plasma because I wanted 50" and, at the time, a 50" LCD was very expensive. The only HDTVs I've ever seen with a better picture than my Panasonic are the Pioneer models. Since Pioneers cost literally twice as much as my Panasonic, and the picture isn't that much better, I'm very happy with my TV.

My advice when buying an HDTV is to get the absolute biggest TV you can afford and fit. Otherwise, you'll likely wish you got a bigger TV.

Also, believe it or not, a very good 720P HDTV will actually have a better picture than a not so good 1080i. So, don't let the numbers fool you. Consumer Reports is reporting on HDTVs about every other month. Their writeups are very informative and easy to understand.

As for HDDVD vs BlueRay, that's probably a situation best waited out. If you play a regular DVD on a progressive scan player and watch it on an HDTV, it looks GREAT! Personally, I think the HDDVDs and BlueRay discs look only slightly better.

[Russ Filtz]

cliffnotes.... unfortunately a TV showroom is the WORST place to evaluate picture quality... all the TV's have been cranked in the color and contrast to get your attention

You need to grab the remotes and start changing settings to normal levels. Usually you can dig up some "normal" viewing settings of of A/V forums. Won't be perfect, but better than having the TV set on broil mode! If you're serious about buying, the salesfolk shouldn't mind. You can even change the settings back later if you're feeling nice!

[John Bailey]

John this goes out to everyone...the reason you always pick the westinghouse could be that they tend to CRANK the color and contrast to the max on the set to capture in the showroom. Samsung is like that too...but then when you get it home and you realize your retina's are getting burnt from watching the picture you take out your trusty calibration DVD and you tune it to the correct settings...and you find that the picture is even better when the balances are correct.

cliffnotes.... unfortunately a TV showroom is the WORST place to evaluate picture quality... all the TV's have been cranked in the color and contrast to get your attention

Good information - Thanks Tim.

John

[Jason Roehl]

One of the things on one's short list when shopping for a flat-screen TV is the quality and intelligence of the various "stretch" modes available for SD material. That was one of the reasons I bought the Sharp Aquos system a few years ago...the "Super Stretch" mode didn't visually distort the SD material. In fact, it was designed to render it with proper proportions. Given that most of us will still need to watch some proportion of SD material for some time to come, both off the cable provider (or OTA) and on DVDs that are not encoded as wide-screen, it's important to test these modes before plunking down your money, IMHO.

I'd like to know a little more about what your stretch mode is doing if it is filling the width of the screen without distortion...is it chopping off part of the top and bottom of the picture?

On my Sammy 40" LCD (720p), I watch regular SDTV in 16:9, and I don't mind it...it seemed weird at first, but I got used to it. I'd much rather watch HD content, though.

Something I find amusing is that we are all getting these 16:9 TVs, yet many of the movies coming out now are actually in a 2.35:1 format (wider yet than 16:9).

As for the HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray wars, rumor has it that HD-DVD will win because the seedier segment of the film industry has chosen that technology...(they also chose VHS in that war).

[Gary Keedwell]

I'd like to know a little more about what your stretch mode is doing if it is filling the width of the screen without distortion...is it chopping off part of the top and bottom of the picture?

On my Sammy 40" LCD (720p), I watch regular SDTV in 16:9, and I don't mind it...it seemed weird at first, but I got used to it. I'd much rather watch HD content, though.

Something I find amusing is that we are all getting these 16:9 TVs, yet many of the movies coming out now are actually in a 2.35:1 format (wider yet than 16:9).

As for the HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray wars, rumor has it that HD-DVD will win because the seedier segment of the film industry has chosen that technology...(they also chose VHS in that war).

It took me a couple of minutes to realise your meaning of "seedier". My first thought was all the crap coming from hollywood. I guess it has been too long since I have viewed a real "seedy" film. LOL
Gary

[mike holden]

People,
I am about to buy a HD tv, something in the 42 inch range.

But what I have never seen is an explanation of what you NEED for HD viewing.

I know you need a tv, and I will have to upgrade the cable to get the HD channels.

But, do I need a receiver and 5.1 speakers? Do I need a new DVD player? What about my VHS?

Any recommendations for a website that might explain it all?

Help!
Mike

[Russ Filtz]

I'd like to know a little more about what your stretch mode is doing if it is filling the width of the screen without distortion...is it chopping off part of the top and bottom of the picture?

On my Sammy 40" LCD (720p), I watch regular SDTV in 16:9, and I don't mind it...it seemed weird at first, but I got used to it. I'd much rather watch HD content, though.

Something I find amusing is that we are all getting these 16:9 TVs, yet many of the movies coming out now are actually in a 2.35:1 format (wider yet than 16:9).

As for the HD-DVD vs. Blu-ray wars, rumor has it that HD-DVD will win because the seedier segment of the film industry has chosen that technology...(they also chose VHS in that war).

You will ALWAYS have distortion with a stretch modes. It's just a matter of how noticeable it is. Some zoom in and cut off the top/bottom, some may only stretch the sides, others try to smoothly stretch the whole screen. Never usually a pretty sight to me. I usually go with a minor zoom and loose some top/bottom, or live with the sidebars. For 2.35 movies, I usually still go with the top/bottom bars to keep the proper aspect ratio. I hate stretchies or loosing screen when I don't have to.

[Jim Becker]

Sharp's method for "Smart Stretch" for SD source does lose a little material from the top and bottom but it's pretty much unnoticeable when viewing. I believe they also use some interpolation to add pixels, too. The end result is that the actual image does not feel stretched...I haven't seen another brand that does it better, although it's certainly possible.

The films that are in the alternative anamorphic aspect ratios, but wide screen, will leave small black bars top and bottom...similar to the letter boxing you'll get when watching wide-screen material (like more and more commercials on network TV) on a 4:3 tv. It's also not really noticeable, especially once you're watching the content!

[Pat Germain]

My Panasonic TV has many aspect ratios. There's one called "Just" which stretches the edges of the picture and leaves the center of the picture pretty much intact. It's a good compromise for watching non-HD programs without blank bars on either side of the picture. There's also a "Zoom" with multiple settings which will stretch the picture from top to bottom to reduce or completely eliminate the bars at the top and bottom. Most widescreen programs look very good with the Zoom aspect ratio.

In order to watch Hi Def Programming, all you really need is a HDTV with a built-in tuner or a separate tuner if the TV doesn't have one (most HDTVs come with tuners these days). Local broadcasts of ABC, CBS, NBC and FOX should be available in your area, for free, in Hi-Def. You may have to get a small, amplified antenna if the digital signal isn't very strong where you live. Sometimes the Hi-Def programs will come in just fine with as little as a paper clip for an antenna.

The Hi-Def broadcasts are on a digital signal which is separate from the regular programs. For example, if you normally get ABC on channel 13, the Hi-Def programs will be on 13-1. Typically, morning news programs, like Good Morning America, and prime time shows are broadcast in Hi-Def. Otherwise, the programs are in standard definition.

If you want more Hi-Def programming you will have to sign up for satellite broadcast company or get digital cable. Both satellite and digital cable are adding new Hi-Def channels all the time. However, I'm pretty sure the satellite companies (Dish Network and DirecTV) are beating the cable companies in this area (as well as a few other areas).

To receive Hi-Def programs with a satellite dish, you must have a Hi-Def tuner box. A standard satellite box cannot receive Hi-Def broadcasts. In addition to the Hi-Def box, you have to pony up roughly an extra $10 per month on top of whatever program package you select.

I was pretty disappointed a year ago when I bought a Hi-Def TV, Hi-Def satellite box and paid an extra $10 a month just to receive a token few Hi-Def channels. As of September 2007, things got dramatically better. I now have lots of Hi-Def channels and new ones are being added all the time. Most of the channels I watch (Discovery, TLC, Food Network, A&E, CNN) are now in Hi-Def. There's also a new Smithsonian Hi-Def channel which is really cool, but desperately needs some new programming.

Hope that helps.

** I would encourage anyone looking for a Hi-Def TV to check out the Panasonic models. They typically aren't pushed by sales staff because the prices are moderate and the markup is minimal. Best Buy likes to push LG TVs because the markup is significant.

[Ken Garlock]

OK, someone tell me what the dash-one means in actual channel allocations. One reason we are going to digital TV is to free up the VHF channels and move the commercial TV to the UHF band.

So, what does the -1 mean in terms of normal channel assignments.

[Pat Germain]

^^ The "dash-one" is currently a digital, UHF (and sometimes Hi-Def) simulcast of the VHF signal. I don't know what the actual frequency of say, "13-1" is, but a HDTV tuner recognizes it as just that.

As I understand it, the digital UHF broadcasts will soon replace the analog VHF broadcasts. The networks keep begging the FCC to give them more time, but the FCC is telling them to get on the stick and make it happen.

Once the VHF broadcasts are phased out, old VHF TV tuners won't be able to display broadcast television. A VHF TV will have to be hooked up to digital tuner. Standard analog UHF tuners won't work either. The tuner and the TV will not have to be Hi-Def, but there will have to be a digital tuner involved.

I expect your local Wal-Mart will be selling cheap, digital tuners which will allow analog TV's to display the new digital broadcasts. There's no way everyone with an analog TV is going to throw it away and buy a digital TV. And there are still lots of people in the US watching over-the-air TV broadcasts.